At the age of 17 or 18 how do you actually know? My kids are going through this now. He's like I don't even know if I want to be an engineer, people just tell me I'd be good at it.

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ydat 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

One thing I always hated about university education is how it’s entirely designed nowadays as a sort of “coming of age experience” for teenagers coming out of high school.

I don’t have any higher education. I was stupid and arrogant and thought it would be a waste of time and money. However even if I did attend at 17/18, I almost certainly would have squandered it. I wouldn’t have been mature or aware enough to understand how and where to focus my time and energy in such a setting.

By about my mid-late 20s I felt like I had a better idea of what I could or could not get out of such an experience, but by that point I had a life and bills to pay and a job to attend to allow for any of that. There’s barely any time or money for education now. I’ve thought about trying to go back for the last decade, but it just becomes less realistic every year.

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hklgny 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think that gap you described of not ready but able vs ready but not able is exactly what the college experience is for. I also don’t think everyone needs to bridge that gap by going to college.

For me personally, I had a ton of fun squandering my college years taking a wide variety of classes that could have become a passion but ended up not. I would not have been able to do that outside of a structured environment that gave each subject a pass/fail opportunity in my life that cost only a semester.

	▲	cindyllm 7 hours ago \| parent [-]
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ahahs 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

College really isn't that hard or complex. All that's required is you attend classes, study, and pass tests. Where's this narrative coming from that one has to "be mature and aware enough to focus my time and energy in such a setting"? what setting? class? the same concept we've all participated in since kindergarten?

online school, commuting, and part time school are all valid options that result in a college degree.

	▲	ydat 6 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> College really isn't that hard or complex. All that's required is you attend classes, study, and pass tests. Sure that’s all that’s required. And simple people such as yourself may be content with that and see it as the end-all But anyone with an avoids room temp IQ understands that the real value of a university education isn’t the classes. It’s the people, the opportunities to do things become > online school, commuting, and part time school are all valid options that result in a college degree. Again the fact that you think that exclusive value of university is a degree it’s quite showing. I’d even argue online education strips some of the more valuable parts of an education away. I wouldn’t recommend that to anyone but those looking for a quick conic status booster like through Nursing. Indeed better to save your money otherwise. I’d put my money down that you’re some sort of CRUD monkey.

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bluGill 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I want to be [whatever]

That isn't the right question. The right question is can you do it, and will it pay enough to provide "a good life" (whatever that means to you). If you love [whatever] more power, that is the best case. However don't lose track of the fact that in the end no matter what job you pick there will be times when you have to do something you hate (not something unethical where you should quit, just something you hate), but you need to do something to be a good citizen.

If your kids already have a good career picked out I encourage a secondary study in some hobby thing. Go ahead and sing in the choir even though as an engineer it is a waste of time - that is fun and that is good (there are thousands of other fun things). Just don't lose sight that the goal is a good life and this will include things you don't want to do but have to anyway.

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swader999 8 hours ago | parent [-]

That resonates. I just advise to make decisions that broaden your future options. And you don't have to choose now, just get in take some classes, look around. He is in the local orchestra (one of the youngest), coaches skiing and kayaking at a pretty high level. His grades are off the chart so he's got to go to university, I wouldn't be inclined to push that now days but his results are too exceptional to do that to him. I just say get a degree, get a trade (coaching fits that well enough), start a business - those could be your five to ten year goals right now.

	▲	bluGill 7 hours ago \| parent [-]
		The problems is those set you up for the rest of your life. Nothing wrong with a trade - but many of them wear the body out, and they don't pay well. I would argue it is worth paying the price now for an engineering degree which will pay more in the long run. Of course if he starts a successful business that can pay better than engineering. Does he want to - I don't have the personality to do well there but that shouldn't stop him.

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sealWithIt 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't think they are necessarily supposed to know. They are supposed to make intentional, well-considered choices: to weigh the tradeoffs, understand the consequences, and choose the option that works best for them.

Unfortunately, educational systems tend to be biased toward a utilitarian view of education rather than one centered on judgment, self-understanding, and the ability to make meaningful choices.

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AnimalMuppet 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Does he have a college scholarship? If so, he should take it, and take some engineering classes. It's a way to find out if he likes it, at least to some degree. But he should also take some other classes - science and humanities, to find out what else he likes.

If he doesn't have a scholarship, same thing, but at a community college.

But the people telling him he'd be good at it see something. "I'd be good at it" is not the same as "I'd like it", but we often enjoy things we're good at more than things we're bad at. (Also, it's often easier to get jobs in things we're good at.)