Remix.run Logo
fuzzfactor 16 hours ago

From another excellent comment:

>How do you make sure a police state doesn't happen?

There is no way to be sure, all one person can do most of the time is make a personal effort and hope it is not overwhelmed by storm-trooper ambitions and communist-dictator tactics.

When I look at Flock, it is so sad. It's been 30 full years since I got my early webcams when they were made by Intel and were still expensive business machines intended for teleconferencing over dial-up. Without really needing the internet of course.

It didn't take long before I was using one for observing my fledgling company's parking lot 24/7, and on more than half my CRT monitor you could see every car that drove by on my street, which was almost constant during the daytime. This was 99% of the action compared to visitors who pulled in.

It didn't take that long before I could remotely call in to the cam plugged into the front office PC through dial-up networking in Windows 95, and when I got a smartphone in 2001 I no longer needed a remote laptop most of the time as long as I was OK with the small screen of the flip-phone form factor. Rather than leaving the spare land-line available for calling directly in, alternatively it was also possible to log into an ISP over dial-up from my company, then keep the line tied up so I (or anyone really) could have access over the internet.

When broadband internet came around it made a really big difference since the stream was not as compressed, and motion not nearly as blurry and jerky. It was nice having the choice between a private remote connection to my front office PC over direct dial-up whenever I wanted, as well as enjoying the faster speed of the public internet plenty of the time too.

Anyway it didn't take long to realize that if webcams ever really catch on, then our local law enforcement would be highly interested in what could be done if they could freely observe them like I was doing looking at my own stream. I didn't know anybody else that had a webcam at first, but for protection of my own building all I would have to do is give the law my IP address and they could pick up the stream no differently than I was. They already knew my location and I had an excellent relationship with all the first responders. Naturally nothing was encrypted back then so that wasn't even a consideration, there was really nothing confidential on my stream to begin with.

I really thought about it long and hard and it took quite a while trying to examine all the possibilities. There were a few obvious downsides regarding privacy which needed much further consideration, so I could not in good conscience pull the trigger until that had been justified very deeply.

I didn't expect to hesitate that long but it really did take more than a year to conclude without a doubt that the negatives outweighed the positives, but that was only in the short run. In the long run the virtually unlimited downsides could only accumulate in excess of the possible upsides, and it was a big unknown how scattered cams could be used to compromise general privacy. Eventually had to realize such a cam network would be more easily used in a predatory way rather than for protection from predators, regardless of who was watching or recording. At significant scale it seemed like it could very well become exponentially dystopian.

No big deal, if you're not capable of thinking of something overwhelmingly positive to base your business on, I understand.

At least I didn't pioneer it, and I assume a lot of other early webcam owners gradually engaged in some of the same thought processes or it would have gotten a lot worse a lot sooner. I sure did talk to a lot of them, as webcams got more popular over time. Most of them were on laptops though and very seldom were aimed at a public space.

There are so many worthwhile things to do which don't amount to spying on Americans.

jambalaya8 16 hours ago | parent [-]

How do you not consider all Americans spies, given the way our devices work and constantly hoover everything? Perhaps most Americans aren't approached to sell the data they essentially collect 24/7 on everything around them, assuming even just a smart phone (not to mention cars, music, nest-like devices, iot, yadda yadda), but it is one hell of a mesh.

fuzzfactor 14 hours ago | parent [-]

I think that's a good observation because people are really doing it to themselves.

Most of our electronics hasn't been American for quite some time now, so there is that. It really is made in, and for, less freedom & liberty loving countries, with the USA becoming more like collateral damage each decade.

It wasn't really this bad until Facebook came along whose sole mission ended up trying to monopolize PII as much as possible. And if not that at least put billions of dollars to work changing peoples' habits to neglect their own privacy anyway even if they end up on other platforms.

If privacy wasn't so valuable in a fundamental way, they wouldn't have been able to get as rich as they did by monetizing its removal.