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| ▲ | tyg13 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Must we always see this restated every time? It's getting a bit stale always seeing these kinds of comments on articles about LLM. | | |
| ▲ | ethin 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I agree, and I very strongly dislike it, to be polite about it. It contributes absolutely nothing and is an excellent way of hand-waving away literally anything an AI model does. Saying "well people do this too" is a great way to rationalize away anything you can imagine that an AI model would be capable of, because "humans do it too so what's the big deal, guys?" | |
| ▲ | uludag 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I can just immagine the response to a headline "LLM chooses mass death: thousands killed in horrific AI accident" being something like "lots of humans have caused mass death too." | |
| ▲ | Kim_Bruning a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Maybe we can think up a (personal) rule we can follow? A naked "natural intelligences do this too" might be a bit too short to be useful. But if we can add when/where, cite papers, or show ways in which the parallel operates, then it might be useful. Compare, eg, talking about a robot arm, and someone goes "a natural arm does this too". You can tell about the fact that it has the same degrees of freedom in the same places, or how this pertains to inverse kinematics, or etc... Same way here, "this happens to be how natural intelligences seem to solve this too! According to Foo, Bar, Baz et al (2026) the gadget is always twiddled beforehand in macaque apes. " or "Same for natural intelligence: I've noticed I use the same general algorithm myself. I've always considered this the correct way to do translation between languages".
-- A more concrete example of a useful answer here. Natural intelligence does this too! When given the question "explain your reasoning" humans are indeed quite prone to post-hoc confabulation. [1] [1] https://home.csulb.edu/~cwallis/382/readings/482/nisbett%20s... "Telling More Than We Can Know:
Verbal Reports on Mental Processes" (this citation is quite old and may have been superseded, mostly just to illustrate how the rule might work) | |
| ▲ | gopher_space 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's the grounded portion of a feedback loop searching for the 'why is this happening' thinking. I'd imagine most of my own comments in this area boil down to "GIGO" most of the time. It's a relevant comment in this instance because we're discussing concepts you need to be both trained and practiced in to reason about, and that our discipline has traditionally been blind to. Plenty of people working with LLM context issues who've never been exposed to the idea of 'subtext' or could tell you why it would matter to their direction of effort. | | |
| ▲ | 8note 2 days ago | parent [-] | | continuing with the "we need open training data" thread how much of the training data had thinking traces that dont make sense to people as being actually a description of why the output should be that way? |
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| ▲ | cyanydeez 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You think, "this problem" is qn LLM problem? | | | |
| ▲ | 8note 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | or rather, its not productive to "we should do better with artificial intelligence" |
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| ▲ | phailhaus 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | No they don't, human intelligence has the ability to form an internal model of itself, which allows it to "notice" its own mistakes and change. | | |
| ▲ | cyanydeez 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Many who watched the last decade knows just because its possible to noticed mistakes and change, its clearly not a reliable process. | | |
| ▲ | elictronic 2 days ago | parent [-] | | The current political climate is well reasoned and intentional. It might not be yours or mine, however the system is working exactly as the ones paying for it have intended. | | |
| ▲ | delichon 2 days ago | parent [-] | | My brother and I have been arguing about that all of our lives. He believes everything is intentional and it's just a matter of discovering who benefits. I see chaos that nobody intends or controls. His political landscape is a tapestry of conspiracy theories and mine is a fog of war. I think his is more comforting, since it admits a possibility of a rational, predictable world. | | |
| ▲ | Terr_ 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I'd synthesize those as: "There is a lot of chaos with no central plan, but every small piece happens because someone believes they will benefit." In other words, a lot of this depends on what scale/scope is being inspected. On the high level, the world is chaos rather than a meticulous and inscrutable plan of the Illuinati Shadow Cabal. On the low level, people do things for reasons, even if they're dumb ones. With respect to the "current political climate", I'd like to suggest that a lot of dumb or seemingly "against their own interests" stuff is due to people prioritizing costly in-group loyalty signals. Their interest in staying good with the tribe is just higher than their interest against a dumb national policy. | |
| ▲ | dgellow 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It’s intentional in the sense that actors are acting intentionally for their own benefit (or at least what they believe is beneficial) and following incentives. Not that there is a master planner who manipulates everything | | |
| ▲ | elictronic 2 days ago | parent [-] | | The current admin seems to have quite a few long term plans they have been working towards. Project 2025, Maralago accords. So far the only major policy item the Trump admin seems to have not intended was the Iran War. Israel killing the intended replacement, Iran leveraging the straight of Hormuz, and dropping three Tomahawks on an elementary school really botched that one. | | |
| ▲ | dgellow 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Yeah, if we are talking about the Trump admin it’s definitely a conspiracy. Pretty much Peter Thiel’s cabal. But they are pretty open about their plans |
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| ▲ | cyanydeez 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | the thing is, that fog might've been true decades ago, but for 100 billionaires to sit in a virtual smokey room and do the shit they want to do, that's not really a conspiracy. It's just peter theil's texting groups. The ability to conspiracy both willing and unwilling is such a low threshold now, it's virtually indistinguishable. You watch one billionaire do something and you're like, I'm a billionaire, I should do that too. The fact that there's so few billionaires, the probability that they conspire together both direct and indirect approaches 1. The inverse of course is rediciously hard to conceive: the working class bands together to get something like universal healthcare. |
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| ▲ | freejazz 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yeah and it's not great then either | |
| ▲ | ethin 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] |
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