How do you know they're flaming out/struggling/etc because of remote work issues rather than other issues like company culture etc?

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Aurornis 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The most undeniable examples were when we worked at a company that had offices, but allowed people to work remote at their discretion.

The people who were burning out at home would become revived and re-energized when they came into the office for something and would stay that way for a week or two.

Then they would slide back into burnout and social problems (assuming benign interactions were hostile in Slack or that people were backstabbing the. was common) the longer they were away from the office.

Some people had the self-awareness to start bringing themselves back to the office for a few days each week and would directly admit they struggled to work from home.

It’s really not uncommon and readily acknowledged in every offline remote work environment I’ve been in. It’s only on social media where you run into claims that remote works well for everyone.

	▲	vector_spaces 4 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Likewise online you run into claims that full remote or hybrid can't and doesn't work for anyone, and we all interpret observed dynamics at work to construct theories supportive of whichever configuration is our favorite (WFH/Hybrid/In Office) or as evidence the one we dislike is worse. In reality the situation is messy and complicated and heavily circumstantial, depending on team/company culture and dynamics and working styles. For instance, I've observed dynamics like what you describe at various orgs, and what they had in common was a lack of psychological safety. If people are responding defensively to benign messages then it tends to mean they have a reason to expect hostile messages. Hostile messages are not a given. One common way this arises: a company ostensibly offers flexible remote work, but in practice strongly prefers in-office work, and enforces this via social pressure. Remote work has a small social cost that accumulates each full day that one works remotely. These remote-oriented workers then have to periodically show up at the office primarily to ingratiate themselves to management and their peers. This is incredibly common, and might even be the default configuration for an org that permits flexible WFH. I don't think this is intentionally malicious, BTW. It's simply what happens when you make a policy shift without considering your team culture as well so that both working styles are supported as first-class citizens.
	▲	jambalaya8 4 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Thank you. This. The backstabbing and passive aggression are so much more trenchant.

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mercanlIl 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I’ve talked with colleagues that have confirmed exactly what the parent comment is saying. They benefit from the external structure, routine, and separation of work/home life.

Some people just don’t want to work next to their gaming PC, completely unsupervised. Others live alone and don’t live near their friends and family. Both these groups (can) suffer from a fully remote environment.

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toomuchtodo 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I fully support coworking spaces for folks who need the in person socialization (especially in the context of entry level and juniors), but I will leave the labor force entirely before I ever go back into an office (~12 years remote, ~25 years in tech). I have a partner and kids, coworkers are not my friends (we simply share a paycheck provider and a body of shared work), but I understand other lives and the needs of others differs. Your social needs are not my needs. I get to eat lunch with my partner every day, see my kids more, no commute, etc.

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jambalaya8 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Either at the company or at home (though I mean working at a coffee shop sometimes isn't so bad). Coworking spaces might help with socialization and some people need it but I am not sure how that benefits who you work for.

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dijksterhuis 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Coworking spaces might help with socialization and some people need it but I am not sure how that benefits who you work for.

because, as someone else i replied to in the thread points out, miserable employees perform worse.

	▲	jambalaya8 an hour ago \| parent \| next [-]
		I am curious, do believe that a company or an employee is responsible for paying for a ersatz "coworking space" (ersatz, in that the employer did not choose that as a place for their employees to work)?
	▲	jambalaya8 2 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		I get that. I said as much. Though suggesting employers should have no say in where their employees work on generally work protected by intellectual property law is tricky. If they have an office, usually that is where they want you to work if the goal is an office setting. Some companies do not and rent out coworking space. Different.

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5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[deleted]

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guelo 36 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

You also share a professional social network which is something you own separately from any company and I have found to be very valuable and strengthened by in-person work.

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5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

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