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| ▲ | 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
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| ▲ | smallmancontrov 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Good call, normalizing to GDP instead of deficit fixes the flip into/out of surplus problem. Also, now that aggro "cite your sources" guy ran, it's probably worth duplicating the cite here: https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/information-resources/budget/... Despite being witehouse.gov, I am pleased to see that this is one page that Trump has not yet updated to read "Republicans Rule Democrats Drool" over an editorialized fever dream replacing inconvenient data. Grab it while it lasts, and let's hope that accounting remains boring enough to repel such attention! |
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| ▲ | root-parent 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Change in U.S. Gross Federal Debt
(fiscal-year-end figures, not inauguration-to-inauguration) Democrats
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President Start End Change
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Joe Biden $28.386T $37.375T +$8.989T
Barack Obama $11.876T $20.206T +$8.330T
Bill Clinton $4.351T $5.770T +$1.419T
Jimmy Carter $0.706T $0.995T +$0.288T
Republicans
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President Start End Change
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Donald Trump $20.206T $28.386T +$8.180T
George W. Bush $5.770T $11.876T +$6.106T
George H.W. Bush $2.868T $4.351T +$1.483T
Ronald Reagan $0.995T $2.868T +$1.873T
Gerald Ford $0.484T $0.706T +$0.223T
Richard Nixon $0.366T $0.484T +$0.118T
Dwight Eisenhower $0.266T $0.293T +$0.027T
Source:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/information-resources/budget/...These are changes between fiscal-year endpoints, not the exact
amount of debt incurred during each president's time in office.Fiscal years do not line up with inauguration dates. |
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| ▲ | 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | FrustratedMonky 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| There is theory that debt drives GDP. The more debt, the more money in circulation, more GDP. So cutting debt, cuts GDP. Also. Not sure GDP is completely normalized verses inflation. |
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| ▲ | fluidcruft 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'm no expert about anything related to this but the obvious fact that the size of the debt as proportion of GDP has consistently increased since Reagan first implemented this scheme suggests it's pretty obvious these GDP gains do not offset increased debt (and that this is causative). | | |
| ▲ | FrustratedMonky 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Not offset. Other way around. Debt comes from spending, that spending is on stuff, which drives GDP. So whole concept that we could reduce debt by increasing GDP and tax it, is not how the money actually flows. This is why in economic downturns, often the best solution is more debt, by more spending. And trying to fix economy by 'austerity' makes things worse. Of course, also I don't know solution, or what the 'right size' debt should be. Just that it isn't black/white. |
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| ▲ | marcusverus 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| This is nonsensical. Debt-to-GDP over the course of an entire term is what matters. Debt was 77% of GDP when Obama took office and >102% when he left. The "change in deficit" is a useless measure. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEGDQ188S |
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| ▲ | fluidcruft 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Democrats Change In Debt/GDP
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Joe Biden +0.1 pp
Barack Obama +22.2 pp
Bill Clinton -9.4 pp
Jimmy Carter -3.1 pp
Republicans Change In Debt/GDP
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Donald Trump +18.9 pp
George W. Bush +27.3 pp
George H. W. Bush +12.6 pp
Ronald Reagan +19.8 pp
Gerald Ford +2.3 pp
Richard Nixon -4.7 pp
Dwight Eisenhower -16.1 pp
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