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chvid 5 hours ago

“The fact that a 17GB file can do all of this stuff on my home machines is a miracle. Once again, I’m delighted and amazed at how much progress local models have made this year.”

I think that should be the blinking headline - this shows what can be done with consumer hardware.

CMay an hour ago | parent | next [-]

For me that moment was Gemma 4 12B QAT. You're not suddenly going to start throwing your hardest programming problems at Gemma 4 12B QAT, it is still 15B parameters less. It's more that, aside from pelican art which isn't what local models are for, I didn't see anything on Simon's post that it couldn't assist with or largely succeed at.

It can run 80-100t/s on a laptop, can understand images natively and do bounding boxes, read tiny text, understands audio natively as well and can transcribe or translate anything you say, can do accurate long context retrieval with pretty large context windows, tool calling, excellent reasoning and is very token efficient.

It's only 7GB including the mmproj or 8GB with MTP. The Qwen 3.8 27B model Simon was using is ~18GB with MTP+mmproj, rather than 17GB alone. The point is not really that you compare these models directly, but that Gemma 4 12B QAT was really a special moment in model releases deserving of a similar reaction relative to its size, but was mutilated by Google themselves, Unsloth and Llama.cpp.

The overall appreciation I think we're seeing this year in particular is that people are easily surprised when multiple things are improving simultaneously which produce seemingly exponential changes. It isn't just that models are getting smaller, or that reasoning is getting better, or that speculative decoding is becoming mainstream, or that models can understand audio and images better now, or that they can reliably call tools which expands their capabilities, or that context windows are getting larger, or that accurate retrieval is improved, or that.... and so on. It's all of them narrowing in at once that is starting to make local models incredible and truly useful for far more use cases on the existing hardware people already have.

podocarp 25 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Out of the loop here. What did Google and unsloth and llama do to mutilate Gemma? I can understand Google shenanigans but llama and gunsmith is kind of surprising.

runtime_lens 44 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

a_e_k 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Like the old proverb: "The marvel is not that the bear dances well, but that the bear dances at all."

bitwize 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Indeed. LLMs resemble human intelligence in more or less the same way that the output of the TI-99/4A speech synthesizer resembles a human voice.

coldtea an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Not if an LLM over chat can fool most people they're talking to a human (which it can), where the TI-99 speech synthesizer voice absolutely can not.

shafyy 5 minutes ago | parent [-]

Can it? I feel like I instantly recognize if I am chatting with an LLM or a human

freehorse 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I also believed that, but seeing qwen 27b overengineering solutions in a bit too familiar way in the article, I started doubting that.

ZaoLahma 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Full agree. I until very recently thought AI tools of today were limited to prohibitively expensive high end hardware hosted in data centers.

I was surprised and amazed to get "decent" (with the expectations set right / low) coding performance out of Qwen3.5-9B on a decidedly medium end Radeon 9070 paired with a 5700x3d and 32GB of DDR4 RAM.

We can finally reason with and "talk" to our hardware.

eru 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes, and we are still pretty early: AI is still advancing at breakneck speeds, and hardware is too.

wejick 22 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In this kind of moment, I really wished hardware manufacturing and demand situation is in much state. Imagine this can be accessible by everyday people with only 6 months hardware market gap. The societal impact would be much bigger.

mhaberl an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wish we could have better hardware and I think the tech is there for a few years already.

I've gone in (too many) details last night with the calcs: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49324600

madduci 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Tried yesterday on my own laptop (a UltraCore 7 255H without dedicated GPU,with 32 GB RAM), it wasn't even starting thinking, even on a small context window (65k)

mdp2021 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Have you tried with different amounts for the "reasoning_effort (xhigh|medium|low)" parameter?

Or the "<|think_xhigh|> | <|think_low|> | <|think_off|>" tags: apart from this template detail, it is not immediately clear if reasoning_effort is deterministic (API) or is prompt engineering.

aphroz 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think not much can run without a dedicated GPU

madduci 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Till now I was using successfully Qwen 3.5 and Gemma 4 at a reasonable speed

pyrale 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There is no way you would run a dense 27b model on that spec. I ran 3.6 27b on a 64gb ram, 24 gb vram, and it felt like the lower limit for this model with a decent context window.

If you want a better experience, maybe wait for either a moe model (like 3.6 35b A3) or a model with less parameters (like 9b). Qwen has been releasing those in the past, so maybe we’ll have them for 3.8 too.

mobelkh 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

were you running the MoE models? those perform better speed wise

noduerme 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What's the story with Mac laptops? Worth a try?

cyberrock 41 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Dense ones like this are more bandwidth-hungry, so you want to try MoE ones like Qwen3.6-35B-A3B (35 Billion params but only 3 Billion Active) or Gemma 4. Unfortunately it seems like we might not be getting a 3.8 MoE.

selcuka 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The author tested in on an M5 laptop too:

> It feels pretty slow on both the M5 Mac and the DGX Spark.

rawland 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes. mtplx runs it at 25 tok/sec on a M4 Max with 48GB RAM.

pdyc 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

i have same 255h and i was able to run it with low token speed 6-8tg/s with approx similar context window 60k

AgentMasterRace 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

his 128gb Ram laptop is quite extreme

simonw 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It should just about be usable in 32GB.

krzyk 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

On a consumer hardware it would be nicer. With no GPU/iGPU or a 6-8GB VRAM.

hnfong 2 hours ago | parent [-]

It would be somewhat slow on a CPU only machine, but it still works.

Besides, Macbooks with 32GB RAM is consumer hardware, just maybe on the higher end.

npodbielski 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It is. I am running it on R9700

bakraman 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

RAM is never the issue, it's always the compute power

CamouflagedKiwi 13 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

It's absolutely not for these models. There are plenty of consumer GPUs out there with 8 or 12GB VRAM - they are comparatively very fast at inference but just aren't big enough to run lots of the models you want. Also context management is a massive pain.

spider-mario an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

RAM is not “never” the issue. My iPhone and MacBook Air could both run larger and more capable models if they had more RAM.

tuetuopay an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Quite the opposite, RAM is always the issue. More specifically, high bandwidth RAM.

geek_at 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

and memory bandwidth

mhaberl an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

what??? not true!

for inference the compute is the last thing we need more of.

memory bandwidth is the numebr one blocker, after that the inefficiencies that where introduced with MoE models (and all new large models are made that way)

Here is a quick read: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49324600

aizk 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Give it 6 months, the capabilities will increase even further.

4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
marcelo-earth 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I thought the same thing, and I generally do a lot of animation in my work, and the results in motion graphics with Qwen are impressive, I really fell in love with it

genxy 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Curious how you are using it? Making blender plugins?