But maybe you can instill properties like shame during training.

Models sometimes blatantly lie and cheat. In a social context, where actors remember, that might work the first time but you get penalized in subsequent tasks with loss of trust.

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altmanaltman 33 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

How do you "install properties like shame"? How is that even possible? Shame is a reaction driven by feelings and our inner selves. A model "feeling shame" is just a representation (false) and not an expression (true).

Thinking that models "lie and cheat" is the first mistake since they are not consious agents who have any free will or consiousness. They do not (no matter what Dario says). Shame will just be another if-then rule if you implement it this way and will not work. Its like asking a rock to feel sad about being a rock. It literally cannot.

	▲	ngruhn 9 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		Ok, then don't call it "instilling shame". Call it "creating a negative reward signal for deceptive behavior". They absolutely lie and cheat. I recently had a problem where a process would die in a container. I told Claude to investigate. It came up with a hypothesis then I told it find a reproduction based on that. It spend many failed attempts until it found the "reproduction" to SSH into the container and `pkill` the process. Claude "knows" that this is cheating, because if I ask another instance to review that reproduction, it totally identifies that as nonsense.

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xscott 36 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

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