| ▲ | wood_spirit 13 hours ago |
| Britain has a first-past-the-post election system so the candidate with the most votes wins in each constituency. As Farage didn’t get an absolute majority last time, and as a majority of voters didn’t even vote last time, I was extrapolating that Count Binface had a real chance. Not just as a protest vote, but a magnet for everyone not supporting Farage as well as everyone wanting a laugh (in a British boaty-mcboatface way). Perhaps a serious clean-up-politics neutral candidate would have done better, like Martin Bell - a very well known war correspondent - who stood on an anti corruption ticket against the scandal riddled Conservative Neil Hamilton in Tatton in 1997. |
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| ▲ | throw0101d 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > […] I was extrapolating that Count Binface had a real chance. The Stand-up Maths channel just did a video on this, "Can Count Binface win?": > "Can Count Binface actually win this election? In a word: yes. In more words: probably not… but we'll get to that later." * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zn1pGRgEoo |
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| ▲ | hdgvhicv 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| All of Farage’s supporters turned out - more votes for him this time than last time. They get what they deserve. |
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| ▲ | PowerElectronix 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | And all the rest also get what Farage's voters deserve. Such is the power of Democracy. | | |
| ▲ | blipvert 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Kein Mehrheit Für Die Mitleid And if the standards committee sees fit he will be doing it again soon. | |
| ▲ | keybored 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Democracies can be arranged in some majoritarian, concensus-based, or any other way that a group of peers can use to decide on something collectively. “Ha ha wolves and sheep voting for what’s for dinner.” Find another quip. | |
| ▲ | actionfromafar 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Such is especially the power of first-past-the-post. |
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| ▲ | 8note 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > They get what they deserve. another expensive byelection. Farage has just wasted public funds to justify taking a big bribe | |
| ▲ | Someone1234 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The Conservative party ran in the last election, they didn't run in this election, so more right wing voters likely moved from Conservative to Farage than he got 110% of his normal core/base. | | |
| ▲ | undersuit 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | I saw a Sankey diagram from exit polls that showed that lots of Conservatives voted for Farage, but some Reform voted for Binface. Can't find it again though because Twitter sucks. | | |
| ▲ | rsynnott 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I saw someone interviewed who said that they supported Reform but couldn't vote for Farage. Which is particularly odd as Reform is _basically_ the Nigel Farage party; it wouldn't survive losing him. | |
| ▲ | wood_spirit 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I thought there wasn’t exit polls in this particular by-election? | | |
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| ▲ | pydry 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Jaywick next door to clacton on sea was the most deprived place in the UK before he came along. He can hardly make it worse. From their perspective all this attention is probably better than being ignored even though the attention is for all the wrong reasons. After all, what did nameless generic tory #4 ever do for them? what would labour do? Probably nothing much, just like farage. | | |
| ▲ | hdgvhicv 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You want attention and an mp who cares and delivers then vote for Binface. Farage has barely been in Clacton for the last 2 years. | |
| ▲ | dofm 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | (ETA: I see you edited your post to clarify — I will leave mine because there is significant nuance about the constituency) Not really. Clacton itself certainly wasn't; it has its problems for sure but other seaside towns do, and the corner of Clacton that is closest to Brightlingsea is I think fairly well off? The constituency also includes Frinton-on-Sea, which is really quite affluent as east coastal towns go and fairly affluent on a national scale — a whole bunch of properties over a million quid, and Walton-on-the-Naze, which is a nice place, a bit more modestly expensive than Clacton. The constituency does include a place that is often considered the most deprived place in the UK — the coastal village of Jaywick which is essentially a holiday resort village that collapsed. Quite a lot of the people of Jaywick resent the allegation, as it goes. It certainly is more functionally deprived than most places in the UK though, as you have a lot of people living in what were basically beach huts in a holiday park. And you can be absolutely certain that Farage does not give a damn about Jaywick. His entire argument, essentially, is that he, being Nigel Farage and occasionally even being Nigel Farage in Clacton, is good for Jaywick because it raises Clacton's profile. Locals evidently do not think he has done a thing, and regeneration would be a council effort anyway. | |
| ▲ | tonyedgecombe 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Interestingly these regions have been getting a lot more investment from central government in recent years. It hasn’t appeared to make any difference to people’s voting patterns. | | |
| ▲ | pydry 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | i doubt it would until that investment actually starts creating jobs and a better standard of living. jaywick is still the most deprived area of the UK. |
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| ▲ | blipvert 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Jaywick is possibly the area in the UK most dependent on benefits handouts. Good luck with the guy who wants to slash your benefits, people. |
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| ▲ | kergonath 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Maybe in a real election. Clearly the big parties had no need to get involved in this farce. I think they were right: Farage got publicly humiliated, all for nothing. Surely this has to be the highest score for a novelty candidate. Besides, I don’t think candidates, even from major parties, would really have a chance in the current situation. |
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| ▲ | gadders 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Perhaps people in the constituency like Farage and want a Reform government. |
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| ▲ | lbriner 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The problem with independent candidates is that they will never be able to influence Parliament enough to make anything happen, they will just be dominated by the big parties. Short of banning people from being part of a political party (which might be a good or bad idea) it is just a sad fact of FPTP voting. |
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| ▲ | mytailorisrich 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I think people voted Binface in protest but knowing that he would lose. Because what if he had won (apart from Farage's utter humiliation, of course)? Would he sit in Parliament in costume? Need to know when to stop so that the joke does not turn into a farce. Regarding first-past-the-post, the system plays heavily against Reform UK / Farage, actually. They currently have 5 MPs (well, 4...) with more votes nationally than the Lib Dems who have 71 MPs. |
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| ▲ | tialaramex 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I expect he would show up to Westminster, take the pledge and not wear the costume. Maybe they'd make a big thing out of refusing to let him enter with the Bin on and so forth but maybe it's not worth the bother. If they did it would be staged, like the modern (and perhaps ancient) slamming of the doors before Black Rod during a State Opening. It's just symbolic, they're going to allow Black Rod in, he did not have an inherent right, as a symbol of the King, to enter, he is knocking to get permission. | | |
| ▲ | mattlondon 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think there is some rule about not wearing hats that block the view of others or something. From the era of top hats and all that which aren'tthat far removed from the bin. | | | |
| ▲ | philistine 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | If you want to see how exactly a Westminster Parliament would stop duly elected MPs who did not follow the rules, look at the 2022 controversy about the Parti Québécois MPs who refused to pledge allegiance to the monarch. They were physically stopped by the sergeant-at-arms. | | |
| ▲ | tialaramex 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | The UK has MPs who won't pledge allegiance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinn_F%C3%A9in -- they're so integral to modern parliamentary procedure that Parliament's own systems just assume they don't count for purposes of working out a majority. If your government can scrape together enough people to get Confidence and Supply unless Sinn Féin MPs turn up, you live another day. Their grand political gesture over decades is worth nothing if they ever sacrifice it to cast a vote and so Parliament's own systems assume that would never happen. But Binface's garb isn't a political point, being turned away because he's wearing a bin isn't some grand political gesture supported by his voters, it would be pointless so that's why I wouldn't expect him to do it. |
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| ▲ | jandrese 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | One reporter asked him about the rule that says MPs aren't allowed to cover their face while it is in session and he responded with "Oh, so now the rules matter?" The thing that still confuses me about the whole thing is none of the other "real" parties even put a candidate up. If a joke candidate can get over a quarter over the vote then it seems like a real candidate could have had a chance, even though the city was chosen specifically because it was his strongest district in the last election. For American voters it is kind of like if someone called Trump on his corruption and he decided to hold a national vote for President claiming that if he won it would prove that Americans don't care about corruption, but held the vote only in Corpus Christi, TX and the Democrats didn't even bother putting up a candidate. | | |
| ▲ | Peanuts99 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It costs money to campaign, it's not a seat any other party had a chance to win and it sends a clear message from the other parties that the whole stunt was a waste of everyone's time. | |
| ▲ | roer 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Your last paragraph answers your second imo. The other parties want to highlight that the election was held with the outcome already practically decided. By not participating they are harming the "people vs. the establishment" narrative Farage is trying to spin | |
| ▲ | technothrasher 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | How are you confused? Given your US example, the only smart play for the Dems would be exactly what happened here. Sure, you could field a candidate and maybe win, but probably not and then you've lent legitimacy to his stunt. Or you could just let Trump run against Bozo the clown, and while Trump would most definitely still win, he would be made to look ridiculous. | |
| ▲ | MrJohz 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I think there's a few things going on that make it a bit different. Firstly, Farage picked this constituency to run in because it's deeply favourable to him. This is quite common for leaders of parties — if you can't even get your top guy to win an election, how are you going to convince other people to do the same? In the previous election, he ended up with 46% of the vote, so assuming the same people vote for him again, you'd need almost all the other votes to go to a single alternative candidate to beat him — that's very unlikely. So there's not much value in running to beat him. Secondly, Farage was always trying to sell this as a people vs the establishment election, so it wasn't really in the interests of any of the other parties to indulge him in that. Either it's a resounding victory against the establishment, or another example of the establishment using its power to beat up the little man. (Ignore the reality that Farage is fundamentally part of the establishment — the question is more how Farage would attempt to sell the result.) So even if you take the approach that the big national parties ought to be able to field a candidate in every election, even if they aren't going to win, there's not much value there either because the result will be used against you. Thirdly, the stakes aren't so large as if this were a vote on the President. Farage is the leader of his party, yes, but right now it's a fairly minor protest party, with only 8/650 seats in the House of Commons. They take up a lot of column inches, but in terms of actual power, right now they're not that important. Gaining that one seat in the Commons isn't so big a deal to the day-to-day running of the country — Labour would continue to have a sizeable majority and control the Government, no matter who won it. So there's no question of "who should run the country" here, it's essentially just a performance to the media and the people. Fourthly, beating Farage here stops the disciplinary processes from happening, and those are probably going to be more damaging to Farage overall than him losing this one election. As long as he's an MP, he will need to deal with the fact that he failed to declare this particular donation, which means it's kind of in the interests of the other parties to let him stay as MP and hopefully face the music. In practice, the punishment will probably not affect him very meaningfully, but the rigmarole of going through the process itself and having his bribe and associations with crypto billionaires repeated constantly in the media will probably be more impactful. And fifthly, this is kind of just an optional extra election that Farage has called. If the investigation finds fault (likely) and recommends a long enough suspension (more uncertain), then the people of Clacton can choose to recall Farage anyway, at which point there will be a "real" by-election. I've no idea whether that will happen, whether the people in Clacton will really want that to happen, or whether the other parties will abstain again, but I think because this was an election triggered exclusively by Farage for his own benefit, there is this perception that the election never really counted any way. |
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