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csallen 4 hours ago

People underestimate the importance of speed on quality of thought, because people underestimate just how much quality is a result of simple iteration.

When an LLM thinks, it typically just makes one pass. It outputs tokens from top to bottom, beginning to end, and then it's done. But when people think, especially strong thinkers, we typically iterate and revise our thoughts on the fly. We do numerous passes. We stop and restart, we reconsider, we review, we reevaluate. Sometimes we do this so quickly and automatically that we don't even realize we're doing it. I think a lot of what separates a highly intelligent or effective person from others has less to do with the quality of their first pass and more to do with just how many additional passes they're able to do in the same amount of time, and of course what kind of criteria they're habituated to consider during their review passes.

Introspecting about this is difficult, but experimenting with LLMs is easy. First, simply ask an LLM to do something complex. For example, to come up with a new business idea, or to plan the next month of your life, etc. After it finishes, tell it:

"Review what you just wrote, according to some appropriate list of evaluation criteria that you come up with first. And then, based on the results, iterate and generate a better response if warranted."

It's insane how much better the next answer will usually to be. Often it'll catch and erase tons of hallucinations, logical errors, and inefficiencies. And you can simply copy-paste this again and again until you begin to hit diminishing returns. Or, in a harness like Claude Code, for example, I might shortcut this whole process by saying, "Use sub-agents to iteratively review and iterate on your work until convergence."

The reason why most people don't prompt LLMs to do this (besides simply not thinking of it) is that it takes time.

But what if it didn't?

What if the LLM's response came back in milliseconds rather than minutes? Then there would be almost no reason NOT to do this. In fact, one could almost imagine it baked into the assistant/harness -- a massive step change in practical quality, enabled by nothing more than speed.

loufe 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Going back between two different company's AI tools when facing a tricky architecture question often surfaces holes in an approach I'd been building.

Similarly, if I ever get a bit too vibey and don't carefully review code changes myself, the blast radius is generally significantly resolved by a carefully tuned "did you consider x, y, and z" skill after a first draft partnered with a "deploy an adversarial review agent for the worktree".

bluerooibos 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> But what if it didn't?

Or what if it output the final result in the first place, without having to repeatedly prompt it to check its own work to trick it into a better answer?

navigate8310 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What stops the LLM not to iteratively think and expound upon before emitting the final tokens?

samatman 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Nothing at all. They're not designed to, so they don't. Change that, and they would.

The question is the wrong one. The right question: why aren't frontier models designed to work that way? The answer: it's slow and expensive.

The other answer: that's basically what you're selecting with "Medium", "High" and so on, how many tokens they'll blow on muttering to themselves before they get back to you with an answer. There's more to it, but not that much more.

macNchz 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is foundationally similar to a lesson I've found from years of pre-LLM software development: builds that turn around in 500ms instead of 5 minutes fundamentally change the way you can work as a software engineer. I think a lot of the same applies to working with LLMs. I'm not sure, though, what the path from where we are today to some future state of high speed token abundance actually looks like...I think there's plenty of chance that we see the bubble pop in the near term over token costs and complexities of today's infrastructure, then some totally different landscape of LLM use in 5-10 years that looks quite unlike what we have today, similar to how waiting 30 minutes for an MP3 of a single song to download on a 28k modem in 1999 seems quaint today.

PunchyHamster 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Just putting more details in, and giving it ways to check itself brings massive improvements. I often ask model to set up test for the problem before actually trying to solve it and it improves it a lot, both in how much babysitting is required (if it can test it itself quickly it goes faster), and the fact the context now contains more detailed description of the problem that came up when making tests.

Turns out TDD is far better for robots than humans, who knew