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syntaxing 3 hours ago

Is there a reason why so many of these agent harness are written in node.js?

Wowfunhappy 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Because:

1. The first significant agentic harness was made by Anthropic.

2. One of the most senior developers of client-side software at Anthropic is Felix Rieseberg, one of the original creators of Electron. [1]

3. After Claude Code blew up, everyone else copied Anthropic.

---

1: https://daringfireball.net/2026/07/claudes_criminally_bad_ma...

m_ke 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

1. it's built for async 2. runs everywhere 3. interpreted, making it fast to iterate on 4. decent performance 5. most popular language, llms are decent at writing it

kzsh 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

An additional benefit of interpreted, I think, is to make plugins easier to distribute and incorporate. With a compiled language you’d need message passing or something.

nurumaik 2 hours ago | parent [-]

dynamic linking was invented pretty long time ago

platinumrad 2 hours ago | parent [-]

You know that dlopen does not compare.

gf000 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

JVM has real and virtual threads and arguably just as good if not better on all these points.

(I actually have/am writing a harness in Java fwiw, but mostly as a hobby/experimentation)

cmrdporcupine 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

JVM apparently has the disadvantage that nobody under the age of 40 wants to touch it anymore. I admit I haven't worked in it in 20 years, but I do think it's a marvel of engineering and unfairly maligned. It used to be my career but I wanted to be closer to the metal.

Having Oracle's tramp-stamp on it may have been the final kiss of death in terms of totally-superficial "coolness" factor.

rescbr 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The JVM has a fixed size heap which for me it is wasteful.

IMHO, Microsoft made the correct approach on .NET.

For LLMs, I prefer C# and C++ instead of TypeScript, JavaScript or Python as the static + compiled language factor keeps the coding agents on track. Plus, they have a true threading/async implementation.

cmrdporcupine an hour ago | parent [-]

It's only appearing wasteful if you're not understanding how memory management works on modern operating systems. It's not wasting any RAM at all if you pay attention to RSS vs VSS.

The actual physical RAM is still entirely available to other applications. It's just made the OS know it might want that many pages. Until there's data in the pages, they will not count towards total RSS.

It's the kind of things some sysadmins used to gripe to me about and I would question whether they should be in charge of a machine at all.

To repeat: just because an application mmaps a large region doesn't mean the OS has actually given it all that physical RAM. It's merely made sure the pagetable knows about it.

jackbravo an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

and you could say the same if not better from C#. But those are now becoming niche languages and ecosystems. One for people around microsoft, azure, etc. The other around oracle solutions. There are still pretty interesting projects around it any of them, but they seem to be losing mindshare against other languages.

cmrdporcupine 31 minutes ago | parent [-]

nah, C# is huge in game development and things adjacent to it. Lots of young people know it and love it for that reason.

knowaveragejoe 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

But have you considered that java is gross and nodejs is sexy?

skeledrew 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That actually don't like you're describing Python. I've been working on a couple JS/TS projects and it's like the models I use (Claude Sonnet and DeepSeek v4 Flash) continually struggle to do coherent work; I have to always keep close watch to reduce sloppiness. I go to Python and it's smooth sailing with minimal prompting (and reduced token burn) for acceptable outcomes.

altmanaltman 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

aren't 3 and 4 a tradeoff though? Yes you have 3 but "decent performance" cannot be an extaled value as compared to "runs everywhere". If its used as a counter balance to 3 then it shouldn't be its own unique point basically saying 4 is true despite 3 in this case.

m_ke 2 hours ago | parent [-]

when you're waiting for network or LLM inference the raw performance doesn't matter at all

eglintondust 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This line of thinking I feel like assumes it's the only program running on your computer. Using less of my CPU and memory means my computer can do more things in parallel, or even run more instances of the harness. My laptop is sweating when I got 5+ claude code sessions running.

jaapz 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Is it actually claude using those CPU cycles though, or the agent running test suites and what not?

Honestly I would not be surprised when it actually IS claude using those resources... It is very clearly vibed

eglintondust 39 minutes ago | parent [-]

I haven't monitored CPU usage so closely, but seems to get heavy with basic tool calls and editing. Memory usage definitely is out of hand, have an idle session right now eating 500MB

kingstnap 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You would think raw performance wouldn't be a problem given most of whats happening is waiting for network calls and streaming tokens.

But modern bloat manages perfectly well to make apps that wait for network calls run poorly enough to give you a bad experience.

Jtarii 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is so very, very incorrect.

altmanaltman 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

yeah fair enough, my entire point is not about the application itself but the contradiction on using superlative terms for all points but a compromising/normal term for one. Like if performance is not revelant why include it in the list of benefits.

0xbadcafebee 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

decent performance, lol! compared to what? a shell script? "i'll only take up 200MB of disk and 4GB of RAM to output flickering text on a terminal. boy this is high performance"

fast iteration is for POCs. once you have the app built and working, you need performance and stability much more than fast iteration

pohl 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Probably for the ease of coding extensions — which strikes me as outdated thinking: if it’s open source and you’re outsourcing the coding to LLMs, why not use a compiled, safe language?

There’s an interesting counter example for DeepSeek called CodeWhale, though:

https://github.com/Hmbown/CodeWhale

Wowfunhappy 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Also isn't OpenAI's Codex written in Rust?

pohl an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I don’t think so. The ChatGPT app was, which is the “Classic” app now. The Codex app that they’re carrying forward is an Electron app and if you forget to quit it before you walk away it’ll make even your M5 Max unresponsive eventually. Sad days.

Wowfunhappy an hour ago | parent [-]

Sorry, I meant the Codex CLI harness. I don't understand why OpenAI decided to start using the "Codex" name for everything.

hocuspocus 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Codex, Kiro, Grok Build. Pi has a clone in Rust too.

edgyquant 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don’t think so it’s an npm package iirc

ceehex 2 hours ago | parent [-]

you can install binaries with npm too, not just limited to js

Zambyte 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm not sure why specifically Javascript instead of something like Python or other options, but using an interpreted environment minimizes the friction for implementing extension systems, which are an important feature in AI harnesses.

hedora 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Python basically requires containers unless you are OK with it bit-rotting every six months or so. At least, this used to be the case for trivial python, and recently was the case for stuff that uses cuda.

I stopped paying attention the third time they redefined matrix arithmetic semantics. That happened to be around the 100th time I was sent a script and it only ran on the author’s machine. Maybe they will fix it some day. When they do, I will not believe it.

In contrast, TS has a much nicer type system and better async support. It runs well on web, mobile, desktop and server. Yes, sometimes you have to ship node.js or a whole web browser, but the tooling for that is slightly less insane than the analogous tooling for python.

Its language interoperability story is slightly nicer too (invoke native code, or use wasm). It’s UI story is much, much better since it reuses all the web stuff.

Pip practically invented the supply chain attack; npm perfected it. That’s probably a draw.

Of course, if you care about performance, then other choices make more sense. If you’re training a model then python probably still wins, but very few customers have a $1M+ machine.

ubercore 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

`uv` helps but it's new, and I don't think it has the same mindshare yet on "I just globally want to install this thing that needs an interpreter/runtime", so Python probably just doesn't come first to mind.

svachalek 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I'd put it on this. In my experience Python is fine for scripting your own machine but an obnoxious platform to distribute code on. It's very fragile to version changes, in both directions; I don't know how many things I've seen that only run on 3.10, not 3.9 or 3.11. Its packaging system is global by default which only compounds this because everything needs a specific version but they're all dumped in the same place. And it tends to have a lot of native code as dependencies, leading to all the issues of needing to either have the right build environment or a runtime environment that's already been built for.

tosh an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

codex is written in rust fwiw

smol has implementations in Go, Python, Clojure, PHP

https://github.com/smol-env/smol

out of the box an agent only needs to be able to do http requests and call tools (which might again be just http requests or shelling out)

there is no inherent reason for why an agent has to be in JavaScript or Typescript

but they are popular languages and come with runtimes and libraries for http requests, steaming, TUI (terminal ui) and so on which can help

sroerick 17 minutes ago | parent [-]

I'm interested in this but why those four separate languages

Edit: okay I read the code, it's actually four separate implementations

jesse_dot_id 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

TypeScript is great and its ecosystem is easy to work within.

Shorel an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Because that hammer is their only tool!

nimsarajay 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I gotta same problem.

sarjann 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Might be easier to do cross platform.

game_the0ry 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

npm as a distribution tool works well and typescript has types.

Any reason why it should not be written in nodejs?

LeBit 24 minutes ago | parent [-]

I always thought nodejs was a weird ringtone for CLI tools.

For web stuff, sure.

But for CLI, it never made sense to me. Especially when Python and Go exist.

scotty79 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nothing better for UI than React. Electron/tauri or node kinda falls from it.

2afTq 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Skill issue. Their models don't work for serious programming so everyone just copies Electron apps from each other.