| ▲ | jmward01 2 hours ago |
| One major consequence of the ramapocalypse, I think, is an even higher focus on small efficient models. I personally believe that the multi-trillion parameter models are fundamentally missing things and the push to smaller, more efficient will drive evolutionary structural changes that will lead to future gains |
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| ▲ | cogman10 37 minutes ago | parent | next [-] |
| I'd assume the closed weight models are all working on shrinking their parameter counts anyways. They too benefit from smaller models. It'd be foolish for these SOTA labs to not be working at reducing parameter counts. |
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| ▲ | XCSme 22 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This is just temporary though, right? With the benefit of LLMs already being proven, in a couple of years we will have vastly better hardware for inference I guess. I feel like now hardware is stagnating a bit, because the software side has moved too fast for the hardware to catch up. Once we settle on sone good, optimal software architecture for the models, dedicated hardware will easily increase throughout by 10x or 100x, for a fraction of the most. LLMs seems quite simple, maybe we'll be able to print at home our own chips with the models. |
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| ▲ | cootsnuck an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I would say even without rampocalypse there would still be the strong incentive to innovate at the edge and under more extreme constraints. The incentives are just even stronger now. I'm looking forward to seeing what types of new things people create over the coming years once there is less obsession with massive unwieldy LLMs. I think the incentives are just too strong to ignore. |
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| ▲ | jrflo 29 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Let's not forget the Bitter Lesson. Small models sound really nice but at some point you're just fighting the laws of information theory. Efficiency gains on the small model side are nice, but efficiency gains + giant model tends to be even better... |
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| ▲ | whimsicalism 19 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I think the path of least resistance will end up being the cheapest and that is scaling up the parameters a ridiculous amount until you get highly capable models that can develop/distill/design the RAM efficient models. Going straight for low param is foolish and just a cope by smaller labs because they don't have the compute/talent to train the large ones. This is 100% true for pretrains, likely true for RL as well although maybe there is some benefit to smaller activated params there. There is of course 0 benefit to small dense models relative to large sparse ones that are equally as memory efficient if you have enough computers. Many on HN are in deep denial about this imo. |
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| ▲ | schainks 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I am literally betting my company on this being true. |
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| ▲ | itsmeduncan an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Me too. I think there are a few waves we can ride here. Let's collaborate? | |
| ▲ | jmward01 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What company? I am 100% focused on this as a concept in my own internal research. | |
| ▲ | oblio an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's a bad bet, historically. I'm having an extremely hard time thinking of companies that have prospered due to software optimization. Most of them were swept away by hardware advances, instead. | | |
| ▲ | jmward01 an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | The 1980's US car industry comes to mind. Nearly wiped out because they refused to make efficient vehicles. SpaceX is arguably showing how a rethink towards efficient can take over an entire industry. I am sure there are strong examples in software as well but they aren't coming to mind. I think when successful, optimization really just means 'finally built right' and people forget the ridiculously inefficient ways before. | |
| ▲ | somethingweird an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Many of the current internet titans started by making things more efficient and accessible. Google for search, Facebook for connecting to people online, Microsoft for working with PCs at a reasonable price, Amazon for buying online as well as AWS. There are examples in other industries as well, Toyota is famous for it for example. There are probably counter examples but efficiency gains can be a huge deciding factor making companies successful. | | |
| ▲ | bravura an hour ago | parent [-] | | You just listed a bunch of 0 to 1 companies, not 1 to 10 companies. They weren’t quantitatively better than previous companies. They were qualitatively better. | | |
| ▲ | cootsnuck an hour ago | parent [-] | | I think finding significant efficiency gains with LLMs and the like may lead to qualitatively better products. Looking at people's experiences to DSV4F makes me believe that even more than before too. I don't think people are realizing that speed can allow for categorically different user experiences that are more than just "worse than frontier capabilities but faster". |
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| ▲ | hgoel an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The headroom for hardware advances is a lot lower now than it has been for most of the industry's existence, when Moore's law held strong. Now we find ourselves limited by cost, physics, fab capacity, and complexity of spinning up more fab capacity. | |
| ▲ | cootsnuck an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Betting on innovation continuing to figure out ways to squeeze more out of less has historically been the right move. Look at Apple. And I'd argue "hardware advances" are more proof of optimization. | |
| ▲ | polymer8563 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | IBM wants a word | | |
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| ▲ | NBJack 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I honestly hope to see this across all applications, games, services, operating systems, etc. We've been in a period of wasteful RAM usage for over a decade. Constraints, whatever their origin, can be a good thing. |
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| ▲ | pjmlp an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Same here, back to when algorithms and data structures mattered. | |
| ▲ | oblio an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | If China makes half decent RAM I would bet more on things like 128GM of RAM being the default on low spec laptops 10 years from now. While I do love optimized software, the hardware side, especially for PCs, has been stagnating for way too long. At least now we have a valid use case for doubling available RAM every 2-3 years again. I had a reasonably beefy Lenovo consumer line laptop that I bought in 2011, 8GBs of RAM. Its screen hinge broke and I couldn't repair it but I'm fairly sure it was otherwise still usable in 2023-24, once the HDD was replaced with an SSD. I think even now entry level laptops are sold with 8GB of RAM. By comparison a PC from 2000 was utterly unusable in 2012-13. | | |
| ▲ | KaiMagnus 42 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I count on a 128GB baseline in 10 years. Beyond the current atmosphere of despair, I really want to see what Apple especially is cooking. Local AI is right up their alley and the current scarcity is unacceptable for them in so many ways. I got the feeling laptops gonna feel very different in 2036. |
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