| ▲ | sgt 2 hours ago |
| Funny, I was just thinking this morning that Google searches are absolutely horrible these days. It's like it has amnesia, a lot of recent history seems to be just gone. Especially on non US specific sites too. |
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| ▲ | sph 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| The Internet has been shrinking massively. My earliest experiences with the Internet were discovering the world of hobby OS dev around the turn of the millennium, when I chanced upon someone’s personal website talking about their OS, with source code and screenshots and dedicated forum. My mind was blown. I spent two years finding hundreds of small websites dedicated to the topic, hung out on IRC communities with other teenage OS nerds like me, and of course participated in the nascent osdev.org forum. To note that all of those websites were readily found through Google, and interlinked with their own topic webrings. Today everything has disappeared or has been conglomerated into siloes, sanitised, focusing on engagement. You have YouTube videos about it (which is more cheap entertainment than actual education), you get some posts here once in a while, there’s Reddit where all intelligent discussion goes to die. IRC is a wasteland of idle bouncers. Then the LLMs arrived to kill what is left. Who says the Internet is a vibrant place today mistakes flashiness with depth. It’s all empty calories, just makes you hungry for more, never satisfies. |
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| ▲ | shoobiedoo an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | On a whim I watched my favorite childhood movie last week, Hackers. It's goofy in some ways, but man it captures the "wild west" feeling of early and mid 90's internet. It was just you, a slow connection to anywhere, and open ports all over the place. Right after I watched it, I dusted off an old hub, connected a few external usb-to-ethernet adapters to my work PC VM's, and now run them through an OpenBSD packet filter. For no reason at all other than to feel that again: me, watching packets, having total control. Hitting a wall and having to read a manpage. I don't really have a point I guess, other than even after being steeped in a dead internet for years (with a slow decline spanning at least a decade arguably) I need to approach what I think is the internet in a completely different way. As in, not at all besides what is absolutely required for work. We're ants in a jar now, not cowboys like we used to be. | | |
| ▲ | dd8601fn an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | That movie is ridiculous and still great. At least as a nostalgia pump. And the red box references and pots patching and such were true enough, even if everything else got hilarious hollywood treatment. | | |
| ▲ | agentcoops 21 minutes ago | parent [-] | | If I recall correctly, the film actually had Emmanuel Goldstein of 2600 and Kevin Mitnick as consultants, so despite the hollywood treatment you have moments of accuracy like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U9MI0u2VIE. Probably the only time Compilers: Principles, Techniques and Tools made it to the big screen. At the yearly 2600 conference, they used to always do a big group rollerblade through NYC. |
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| ▲ | farzd an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | "Let's echo 23, see what's up" |
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| ▲ | Melatonic an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Checkout Kagi SmallWeb ! | |
| ▲ | Razengan an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Well, just as the "internet" supplanted newspapers, magazines (gosh those classic gaming mags), and broadcast television for many people, and how the newspapers replaced the town criers before them, why shouldn't the "internet" be supplanted by a more accessible medium? Why should I have to suffer through Fandom raping me with screen-obscuring banners and "PLEASE ALLOW ADS" just to make some sense of fucking Warhammer 40K lore (written by unpaid volunteers anyway)? instead of just asking ChatGPT what the fuck Globriznaroks is/are. Why should we support shady companies by sitting through their ads on YouTube videos for minute topics instead of just asking AI for the shit I want to know about? Why should we submit to the whims of 3 mods on a subreddit deciding what thousands should get to see (fuck /r/AskScience) and then getting low-effort answers or outright trolling anyway? instead of just asking AI? Bury me, I am ready. | | |
| ▲ | pjc50 16 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | This is better for you as an individual, but worse for society as a whole. As you've noticed, monetization is the weak spot. AI will not escape being ruined by monetization, but it might be harder to notice when it arrives. | |
| ▲ | Tarq0n 42 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Where is the information going to come from though? LLMs aren't primary sources, they consume and regurgitate. | | |
| ▲ | Razengan 26 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I guess/hope that's where Yann LeCun and their proposed "world models" etc are going to fill in :) |
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| ▲ | spiderfarmer 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That's 100% correct. Since Google's "helpful content update" Webmasters get massive amounts of "Crawled, not indexed" reports for anything Google considers "more of the same" or "thin content". If you're not an authority on a subject, simply meaning: you already rank for similar content, or if you don't get links from more popular domains, your content is in the abyss. It's all under the guise of "We're fighting SPAM", but the algorithm (or model) they use is heavily skewed towards intents (actions) and brands (because they 'trust' big names). And it's not working. A simple, short informative blog about a tool you used that could be of interest to max. 100 people on this planet is no longer getting ranked, if it gets indexed at all. Those posts tick all boxes: no incoming links, no authority, thin content. It changes somewhat between "Google Updates", but it's pretty clear that it's no longer working. Multiply the 100 people not finding that post by millions of queries and it's now a big problem for Google. My dad asked me the other day if Google got worse because smaller companies are not paying Google enough money. He didn't see any difference between ads and content, because all results are now big brands only. "Helpful content" is such a misnomer. It removes all helpful content in favour of AI overviews and only shows intent-driven, commercial content. We're watching the end of Google's hegemony for sure. |
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| ▲ | agentcoops 9 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | This is fascinating. I haven't really kept up with SEO for years, but was recently helping an academic publisher setup their web presence and ran into exactly this issue: Google was/is refusing to index the actual journal articles on the new site and they were moved into this liminal "Crawled, not indexed" state before vanishing entirely. Comically, it's now easier to get your content indexed and served with a visible link by ChatGPT than it is Google... | |
| ▲ | mschuster91 16 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > We're watching the end of Google's hegemony for sure. Who is standing by to replace them though? OpenAI and Anthropic certainly not, they are burning money in a fire pit to stay alive. There is no way in hell they can afford the compute necessary to replace Google. | | |
| ▲ | spiderfarmer 5 minutes ago | parent [-] | | If ChatGPT goes bust, they'll find another ChatGPT, not another Google. I wouldn't be surprised if we'll see a popular competitor from China in the years to come. TikTok already took social media by storm, something nobody thought that was possible either. |
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| ▲ | armchairhacker an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Kagi |
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| ▲ | neysofu a few seconds ago | parent | next [-] | | Kagi is not immune to this (it's the substrate itself that's losing quality, not just search) but it's a decent antidote. | |
| ▲ | Seattle3503 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | A lot of the time I use Kagi to find the Reddit post or Wikipedia page I need. There isn't much else. | |
| ▲ | matkoniecz 10 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | They only repackage what Google et all returns. Or have they started own indexing? | |
| ▲ | Gigachad an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Kagi can’t solve the fact that the internet itself has gone to shit. The independent forums are largely gone, the mainstream social media’s have all locked down and been spammed with AI slop. |
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| ▲ | wickedsight an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| About 15 years ago, I won a phone in a contest. Last week I tried to find information about it, but I couldn't. No AI, nor Google could find anything the contest I won it in. When people say "the internet is forever" that can certainly be true, but it isn't for everything. |
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| ▲ | sgt 33 minutes ago | parent [-] | | That reminds me - my wife had a friend who was killed by a shark (no joke). There were newspaper articles, but Google has completely forgotten about this and the newspapers are often behind a paywall, changed their URL's or simply the article vanished from those sites as well, which certainly doesn't help. |
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| ▲ | gspr 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| They're so horrible that I've started defaulting to their AI summaries. And I hate those summaries. It's just that the regular results are so terrible now, and seemingly getting worse at a noticeable pace. I used to not worry. I was sure that a competitor would come along and fix search. But the longer that's not happening, the more nervous I'm getting that we'll actually lose search. If a few more years pass in the current state, I'm afraid the majority of people will forget what search was like and default to AI summaries. I've tried alternatives, including Kagi (not actually relevant because there's no way I'm – directly or indirectly – buying Russian products) and Uruky, but they're not good enough. (Edit: Added "directly or indirectly" about Kagi to point out that I'm not claiming that Kagi itself is Russian.) |
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| ▲ | ehnto 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Unsurprisingly all search engines seem to be struggling with AI content sites as well. It's rare to get human articles, sometimes rare to even get authorative websites. It's frequently a bot site with a plausible enough name like, potterspainterly.com or medhealthdirect or something with oddly specific articles written in the last year. | | |
| ▲ | Gigachad an hour ago | parent [-] | | This is the root problem. The idea that Google is deliberately sabotaging search seems far less likely than the idea that the internet is mostly garbage and SEO slop. | | |
| ▲ | mittensc an hour ago | parent [-] | | perhaps this would not be a problem if google did not directly monetize AI Slop... for that matter why even include AI crap in search. | | |
| ▲ | Gigachad an hour ago | parent [-] | | The Google conspiracy has been getting shared for long before AI slop came in to the picture. The fact is that SEO people got too good at their jobs and filled the search results with junk. | | |
| ▲ | mittensc 36 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Google can properly classify email spam. They should be able to fight this as well. Problem is they are the ones funding the poor quality spam and they're in turn profiting by taking money from advertisers. |
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| ▲ | apothegm 18 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | How is Kagi indirectly Russian? | | |
| ▲ | matkoniecz 8 minutes ago | parent [-] | | They are repackaging bunch of search engine results, including Yandex (and paying for it). Yandex is Russian. I would not describe it as Kagi being indirectly Russian. |
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| ▲ | germandiago 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Probably what is happening here is that in the race for AI, which, whether we like it or not, means power and control, Google crafted things in a way that it does not do "self-competition" by their old search engine. Idk, just throwing ideas aloud here. | |
| ▲ | onli 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Brave search works really well, I haven't switched to Google search for months. | | |
| ▲ | spiderfarmer an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | If I recall correctly Brave scrapes the web via their users, cannot be individually disallowed in robots.txt and Brandon Eich is conversing in a pretty hostile manner in every thread about him or his company. | | |
| ▲ | onli 18 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm not in the brave ecosystem otherwise nor a big fan. But the search engine was competitive with google when it was still cliqz, before it was shut down there and the leftovers bought by brave. And it still works really well. Even if brave were problematic it would be the lesser evil to me. | |
| ▲ | GreenVulpine 39 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | gspr 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Thank you for your suggestion. I think I've discounted Brave automatically because my brain is numb to the dime-a-dozen chromium browsers out there. I'll definitely give the search a try! |
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| ▲ | gostsamo 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Kagi is not russian. The founder is from Serbia and the company is american. PS: I hope not many people are the type to see a slavic name and conclude Russia. | | |
| ▲ | gspr 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Kagi pays Yandex for data. Yandex is definitely Russian. | | |
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| ▲ | casey2 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That's certainly the goal, to drive more users to AI by making the other option worse. The real question is when do you put a stop to it. When brain implants are 2x as productive are you going to say nah? It's times like these were you are supposed to take a step back and consider what you are actually producing and why. | |
| ▲ | drysine an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > there's no way I'm – directly or indirectly – buying Russian products Why not? | | |
| ▲ | matkoniecz 4 minutes ago | parent [-] | | In my case: Russian state is my direct enemy and most likely to invade my country. And would do it if they would consider success likely. Previous wars with Russia were obnoxious with very bad consequences, so I dislike idea of even very indirectly funding them. And I support actions that are harmful to Russian economy, also when they are harmful to me - as long as it is not too badly balanced. As this is much cheaper than directly participating in war. (I am from Poland) PS Yes, I understand that at some point there are some indirect effects that you cannot avoid. I also understand if for some people paying Kagi that pays tiny fraction of that to Yandex that is paying taxes in Russia which funds their wars is too tenuous connection to care. |
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| ▲ | roysting an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | roysting an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
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