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scrlk 4 hours ago

Will be interesting to see how Qwen3.8 27B compares against this once it releases this week. Seems like dense 30B is back in fashion?

EDIT: An open weight version of Muse Spark 1.2 is going to be released as well:

https://x.com/alexandr_wang/status/2086756152034066792

https://xcancel.com/alexandr_wang/status/2086756152034066792

pu_pe 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Based on the benchmarks, it seems that Muse Glimmer barely edges out against Qwen3.6 27B, except for tool-calling skills (MCP, etc.). I wouldn't be surprised if they released it now because they are afraid they wouldn't beat Qwen3.8 27B.

mycall 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Do AI companies make release plans based on upcoming other models like this? I would think all the processes that go into the repository and weight infrastructure pre-training, checkpointing, knowledge distillation, model compression, post training pipeline, ecosystem integrations, inference API, benchmarking, human eval/safety/alignment, docs, etc... all that dictates the release schedule.

drob518 25 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Any company working in a competitive industry is generally aware of what their competitors are doing. PR is an important aspect to market success, so it factors into release schedule. It may not be the dominant factor given engineering constraints, but yea, it’s certainly a factor, and a large one at that.

michimagdesign 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, not every model release is reactionary to other labs. Either they had hints for the release of other models or they cut efforts in late stage testing of the models to hit these earlier release dates. There’s always some flexibility. And there’s certainly the incentive to cannibalize the news cycles for competitor models.

skohan an hour ago | parent [-]

I could imagine pulling out all the stops to get a release over the finish line a week early if you're worried about being surpassed by another release

pu_pe an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah but you can probably have everything ready and then accelerate as necessary. Meta itself did this when releasing Llama 4, it was a really botched release right when they were feeling the heat from DeepSeek and others.

echelon 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There has been a long history of AI model releases made shortly before or after a major planned release by another company. Almost always to upstage or steal thunder.

Just recently, Minimax H3 released as open weights on the eve of Seedance 2.5 global availability. It's not as good, but it's good enough and it's completely open.

Flux 3, which is nowhere near as good as either, suddenly announced their release once news of these other two became public. They knew if they waited they'd be ignored. It didn't really help them much, unfortunately.

The LLM releases are even more rivalrous.

And don't forget all of the competing launches planned before Google IO or major release events.

Companies like to eat into the news and press cycle of their rivals.

Sabinus 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I've seen it here on HN (it's particularly noticeable via the /active page) multiple times. If Google, OpenAI or Anthropic release something significant, odds are good you'll see a headline from one of the others.

Forgeties79 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>long history

Seems a bit premature of a statement lol

echelon 2 hours ago | parent [-]

If you start counting since WaveNet or BERT, it's been ages. Especially when it feels like decades of advancements happen every single year, and rival labs are always trying to one up each other.

Forgeties79 an hour ago | parent [-]

I don’t start counting since we WaveNet or BERT so there you go!

Even if I did, we’re talking barely a decade

stogot 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

the last few items there (benchmarking, human evaluation, docs) can be rushed or skipped by leadership if they want to beat comp. they probably spend a few weeks on those things normally

dannyw an hour ago | parent [-]

One window that can be shortened is working with software ecosystem and upstream partners; think day 0 on together, fireworks, Unsloth, etc. That obviously happens from partners getting embargoed weights early.

karimf 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, and also waiting for the next iteration of Gemma. Muse or Qwen are optimized for coding, while IMO Gemma is still better for non-coding tasks.

https://x.com/osanseviero/status/2086107547535122767

dannyw an hour ago | parent [-]

You can partially tell by the tokeniser; which gives you some hint into the training corpus mix.

</div> is four Gemma4 tokens, but one Qwen3.6 token.

venusenvy47 25 minutes ago | parent [-]

Where do you find this information for each model?

ComputerGuru 15 minutes ago | parent [-]

The tokenizers are included in the open s̶o̶u̶r̶c̶e̶ weights releases; you wouldn’t be able to use the weights without the corresponding encoder/decoder, in fact.

Gecko4072 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Makes me feel hopeful. Things felt more positive around the llama 3 era. Now it’s like a dark, dreadful race.

wronglebowski 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It’s really interesting timing, Qwen over thinking is what kills it for me. I’m just glad we have more options in this size class now.

ComputerGuru 12 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Just to play devil’s advocate: you can’t compare Qwen to a (proprietary/closed source) hosted model and deduce that Qwen is overthinking, as Qwen gives you the full reasoning/thinking trace while all the proprietary models now give you only a summary “to prevent distillation”, making it hard to properly compare apples to apples here.

dannyw an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Qwen thinking is really good in Mandarin; and probably natively trained the most there.

Try a system prompt requiring it to think in Mandarin, while still delivering the response in the user’s language.

imilev 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

yes i think everyone is waiting to see that ;d, i've been on qwen for the last year and a half now.

ignoramous 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Seems like dense 30B is back in fashion?

Surprising that Meta don't host this model, even as rate-limited free-tier.

> open weight version of Muse Spark 1.2

Wait. Is this "version" different from what Meta serves?

lostmsu 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It seems worse than 3.6, but a bit smaller.

UPD. was wrong on smaller, it's actually much larger

IsTom 3 hours ago | parent [-]

How is 30B smaller than 27B?

LeBit 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It uses fractal compression

lostmsu 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

They say it is trained with quantization awareness, so it should only be 15GB or so. Qwen was only trained in FP8 with QAT.

UPD, NVM, got misled by comments here. It is actually almost 60 GB so much larger

ricardobeat an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Quantization awareness doesn’t change the size of the weights, just means it won’t degrade when quantized. QAT = quantization aware training. They will both be very similar in size at the same quant.

xienze an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

You're mixing up sizes of different quants. The 60GB is unquantized, and Qwen's unquantized size is around 54GB. Their sizes as like quantization levels are similar.