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▲ TrackerFF 2 days ago

For the past few years, I've seen a dozen of friends or acquaintances turn "ideologically crazy", and they can be roughly grouped into:

A) Onset of schizophrenia or other serious mental illness, followed by psychosis. This is actually the most common I've seen. But it is also the easiest to spot.

B) Some crisis event in life, followed by finding / joining a community. Some were hit hard by this during COVID.

I've yet to personally see people that have their, well, shit together and live busy lives turn into ideological crazies or extremists - where there is no mental illness. Of course, it could be that they just hide it better. Don't use their public accounts, etc.

I also think it is much easier to become radicalized today. Once you search for any extremist views on say social media, you'll be bombarded with it. Just belonging to a certain demographic could trigger a non-stop barrage of extreme wing influencer content in your feed.

▲121789 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Don’t agree actually. Have seen many busy working professionals fall into “extremism” and it’s pretty much always the same. They have a few issues they are firm on and align with one party, they don’t like the other side because of this, then they only hang out with people aligned with their views and only consume media aligned with their views. Quickly turns into lunatic talking points, and I’ve seen it happen to both the left and right.

▲inigyou 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I've only seen this with the right. Can you describe what it's like when it's left?

▲aftbit 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

In my experience, it looks almost identical, just mirror imaged. Lots of anger and fear, a strong certainty that they know the full story about every issue and that the other side is evil or idiotic. No grace or space in their hearts to consider that many of today's contentious issues are actually complicated, with overlapping and conflicting ethical arguments.

▲inigyou 2 days ago | parent [-]

I'm noticing a lack of any concrete examples of left wing extremism in this comment.

Right wing extremism is like, that lady from the UK who made a tweet asking everyone to burn down a hotel full of migrants.

▲jayGlow 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

the various assassination attempts against the president or the multiple attacks against ICE agents and facilities?

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/leader-antifa-cell-members-no...

▲graceful6800 a day ago | parent [-]

Dunno, I'd mostly frame that as self defence from an increasingly hostile and authoritarian government and the actual, literal secret police.

Fighting back against people who straight up murder civilians in broad daylight is not something you can classify as extremism with any good faith.

▲aftbit 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There are some other examples in the thread, but two that come to mind for me are Charlie Kirk's killer and the guy who shot the cop in Alvarado, Texas after the ICE protest.

Arguable another example is the guy who killed the United Healthcare CEO.

But that said, most people who have drunk the kool-aid of one party or another are not nearly this extremist. Most of them just post nonsense on social media or even keep their views to themselves but still hold extremist views.

▲jst1fthsdys 2 days ago | parent [-]

> Charlie Kirk's killer > the guy who killed the United Healthcare CEO.

Allegedly. Neither have been convicted.

▲aftbit 20 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Well sure, and I'm not a lawyer or your lawyer, this isn't legal advice, etc.

I'm pretty confident that I know who killed both of those people. I'm pretty confident that both did it for ideological reasons. I'm pretty confident that both of those ideological reasons would be seen as "left leaning" in the American political spectrum.

As you say, neither has been convicted, but fortunately I'm not a court of law so I don't have to wait until they are convicted to draw inferences from what I see in the world.

Leave aside the shooters themselves for a moment. The other thing I find interesting is how those events are discussed and understood by other people, especially in contrast to right-leaning violence (like the people who killed Alex Pretti and Renee Good, or the person who killed Melissa Hortman and her husband and also shot John Hoffman and his wife, or even the guy who killed Jonathan Joss). Generally I find it to be a mark of extremism if you feel that political violence is justified as long as it is done against the other side. I've spoken to a lot of people who I would characterize as left-leaning extremists because they outright support the killings of Charlie Kirk and Brian Thompson, even if they wouldn't do it themselves.

This is different from understanding how they could happen, or sympathizing with the killers. I'm talking about people who outright cheer for this to happen more frequently. IMO they do not understand what kind of world they are asking for, but that doesn't stop them from cheerfully asking for it.

And similarly, I've seen people who dismiss the killing of Renee Good or Alex Pretti as justified because she "weaponized their vehicle" (no she didn't - watch the video) or because he brought a firearm to a protest (so what - that's legal ... and what about Kyle Rittenhouse?)

So basically, lots of words to say ... violence against people for ideological reasons sucks and isn't justified. Don't do it.

▲jst1fthsdys 19 hours ago | parent [-]

> I'm pretty confident that I know who killed both of those people. I'm pretty confident that both did it for ideological reasons. I'm pretty confident that both of those ideological reasons would be seen as "left leaning" in the American political spectrum.

One can easily say with as much certainty that it was from fascist infighting, something fascists are well known for. Fuentes was saying some rather incendiary things about Kirk prior to the shooting, after all.

Someone hating UHC and the health care system in this country doesn't mean they are left leaning either. The base level that you can assume is they are sick and driven to extremes by a corrupt and cruel system.

> Generally I find it to be a mark of extremism if you feel that political violence is justified as long as it is done against the other side.

Is it extreme to approve of violence on those who further an agenda of committing violence on a societal level?

> IMO they do not understand what kind of world they are asking for

That is the world we have lived in forever.

> violence against people for ideological reasons sucks and isn't justified. Don't do it.

You might want to get on the line with the government and let them know this. A lot of problems would be solved.

▲aftbit 12 hours ago | parent [-]

>One can easily say with as much certainty that it was from fascist infighting

I'd be willing to take this bet if you want. The prosecution just released some text messages purportedly including a confession from the mainstream suspect in the Charlie Kirk killing. Of course, all of this could be a snow job ... but I am relatively confident it was not.

>Is it extreme to approve of violence on those who further an agenda of committing violence on a societal level?

I suppose that depends on your definition of "violence on a societal level" and gets into some pretty heavy ethical questions. In general though, I'd say that approving of violence against people who act deplorably but do not intentionally and knowingly kill others is pretty extreme.

>You might want to get on the line with the government and let them know this. A lot of problems would be solved.

If they'd take my calls, I'd happily tell them this too. I have been disgusted at the violence done in the name of the people of my country by its current government, against people who were either totally innocent or at least not deserving of death for their crimes IMO. The cruelty of the state is unmatched in both its scale and temper.

And yet, one of the fundamental "rights" of a state, if you will accept that framing, is the monopoly on legitimate violence. I don't like that, and I hope we find a better point of stability for society some day, but this is what we've got to work with today.

▲positr0n 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Well I mean someone killed them. So whoever did it is who OP is talking about.

▲pavel_lishin a day ago | parent [-]

Assuming the perpetrators are left-leaning.

▲tanseydavid 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"Defund the police/abolish prisons" is a good example IMHO.

▲jst1fthsdys 2 days ago | parent [-]

That is a rational response to the corruption and inhumanity of the police and jails, though.

▲inigyou 2 days ago | parent [-]

You think that because you're left wing. A right wing person would think the arson threat was reasonable too.

▲reverius42 a day ago | parent [-]

Giving the police a smaller budget is the same level of extremism as murdering a bunch of refugees?

And before I get piled on for saying "smaller budget", think about what calls to "fund the police" would mean (a bigger budget), and think about why it's called "defund the police" and not "abolish the police".

▲tekla 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/former-youth-organizer-a...

▲jdubs1984 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

uni bomber.

▲reverius42 a day ago | parent [-]

The Unabomber was anti-tech but not left wing in any coherent way.

▲zappb 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Their hysterical obsession with Israel.

▲doom2 2 days ago | parent [-]

Can you expand more on what makes it hysterical or an obsession, compared to any other issue one might have interest in?

▲mock-possum 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> They have a few issues they are firm on and align with one party

What kind of issues though.

▲m463 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> it could be that they just hide it better.

"Most men lead lives of quiet desperation"

I think we need decent third places back, because the post-internet replacements are sub-par.

▲harimau777 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

It seems like you are overlooking a possibility: Perhaps the people who have gone through some crisis or otherwise "don't have their shit together" are politically radical precisely because of how society has failed them.