I agree with a lot of this, and the framing is new to me and I really appreciate it. I especially appreciate the acknowledgement that there isn't necessarily anything wrong with having extreme beliefs; "extreme" is a label most often applied by antagonists of such beliefs. But I definitely feel like there can be a pipeline where one extreme belief may lead to others simply because they are also labelled extreme and not for a more recognizable reason.

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rglover 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

It's okay to have extreme beliefs right up to the point of action. Extremists IME are impossible to negotiate with past a certain point. Once they're convinced their idea(s) are right, you will see all manner of rushing to support their beliefs and keep the psychological hatch shut (even in the face of calm reason).

I've unfortunately lost a few friends to this process (why I felt compelled to comment). There's definitely a "rabbit hole" effect where there's a chain of beliefs that lead you further into extremism. A, B, and C may be "extreme" but benign, and then at some juncture, D comes along and that's the 'thing' that confirms their extremism is a correct response to the world.

I had this happen with an online friend who forgot he was talking to a mixed-race black man and started sending me what was effectively racist content (under religious pretenses), completely doe-eyed, almost leaning in as to see whether I was just as excited to "get on board" (I wasn't). That shift happened rather quickly and I later stitched together how he'd gotten there in his head (in effect online religious content on YT/Twitter).

That's the danger with entertaining extremism: one day, they won't be "just talking about stuff," they'll be strapping up the proverbial vest and you'll be thinking "but we just had a normal conversation..."

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irishcoffee 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I would counter with people who believe the earth is flat. This is in fact an extreme belief. The best part is, I don’t care if people believe this, not even a little a bit.

I care when they start arguing with me and trying to jam their belief down my throat. I didn’t even ask, you brought it up and you’re mad at me because I disagree.

I think this is the more interesting point to consider. Having a belief, any belief, is probably just fine. It’s the second part that’s the issue.

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hingler36 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Where would you draw the line between someone advocating for their belief vs shoving it down your throat? Does the "extremeness" of the belief factor into the judgement? If so, how are we not back at the original question of the definition of what an extreme belief is?

	▲	irishcoffee 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		Why are you implying that advocating for your belief and making someone else endure that advocation is some kind of right? It is not. As to your question, there are a lot of extreme beliefs that sometimes end up becoming true. IIRC the person who first advocated for washing hands because of tiny "things" that could make people sick, he was laughed out of the room, and he was right. It was an extreme belief at the time. I basically reject the whole premise that "no belief is extreme" because there are countless examples throughout history of extreme beliefs that the world considered extreme, and they turned out to be true. Didn't make the belief any less extreme at the time.

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phatskat 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Oddly though beliefs like “the world is flat” are tied up in other beliefs that actually cause harm. Flat-earth leads to the firmament leads to Christian god did this leads to ((those people)) killed Christ and control the banks that want you to believe in a spherical earth and get vaccinated.

One of the most depressing things about exploring the conspiracy world is that all roads tend to get co-opted into hateful rhetoric - I miss the days when I believed that one could hold a rather silly belief and have it just be benign.

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zmmmmm 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> I definitely feel like there can be a pipeline where one extreme belief may lead to others

Once you accept a premise that majority consensus of well informed people can be drastically wrong, it's not hard to then transfer that horizontally from one domain to another. So if you accept the possibility that scientists made up climate change - why wouldn't they also make up COVID? or falsify risks associated with vaccines? or any other number of things.

Underpinning all of this is some basic elements of humility and empathy - willingness to accede to a greater authority of others, and to weigh others experience that is different to yours as important in informing your views. Cutting those tethers gives your own belief system a new degree of freedom.

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yen223 3 days ago | parent [-]

What's also crucial is having your beliefs be backed by reality, and tossing away beliefs that aren't.

	▲	sethammons 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		A core tenant of many-o-religions is faith, and if "the world" has counter-factuals, those are tests against that faith. Tossing away elements and breaking faith likely ends in exclusion from the group. And that is too much for many.