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InsideOutSanta 10 hours ago

People have been voting with their wallets since forever, and look where it got us.

The reality is that asking people to vote with their wallets does not work. But this specific case is even worse, because it's not possible to "vote with your wallet" to begin with.

The specific things the blog post notes are "how terrible the experience of developing apps for the iPhone/iPad is, how Apple takes 30% of all app store and in-app purchases, how awful Xcode is as a development environment"

So let's say you want to build a mobile app that actually reaches people. There's a duopoly, so you have to support Android and iOS. What are your options for "voting with your wallet" then? There's nothing you can buy that lets you reach iOS with your app without using Apple's ecosystem.

"Voting with your wallet" is what people tell you to do if they don't want you to do the things that actually work, which, in this case, is regulation. We have two companies controlling both viable mobile platforms. There is nowhere else to go for 99.9% of people. You can have a billion dollars, and you still can't "vote with your wallet." You're still going to own either an iPhone or an Android phone, and support both if you want to publish an app.

The obvious answer is that the two companies that control these platforms need to be regulated. Apple can play dumb if it's only Europe, but even so, the cracks are starting to show (e.g. Apple's recent copy/paste interoperability announcement). If the US joined in, the dam would break.

teeray 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> You're still going to own either an iPhone or an Android phone

Don’t forget that option C) “none of the above”, is no longer viable since we’ve reorganized the world around the smartphone. The analog alternatives for basic, vital life transactions are dwindling or eliminated in many circumstances.

flax 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You're right that to deploy an app to Apple's app store you have to pay them. The $100/yr access ransom is unavoidable if you want to have the option of making money there. But I've gone to great lengths to avoid the rest of the stuff that genuinely sucks about building for Apple: I use Flutter to avoid most of the iOS nonsense. I use Android Studio on Linux for the vast majority of my development. I target Android/web/iOS and test mainly on the first two. I use codemagic.io to avoid having to have a mac to run ios builds.

I did have to borrow a mac and use xcode to set up my project, I wish that weren't the case.

I'd love to tell iOS users to just use the web version, but in-app purchases on web are a real headache compared to mobile and I haven't set up Stripe or equivalent. And Apple has crippled the web experience on iOS anyway with Safari.

Does any of my approach "vote with my wallet"? No. It's just for me, to avoid the horrible experience of Apple to the extent possible while also reaching users that choose to use iOS.

iamnothere 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

“Regulating” in the current environment just means mandated coziness with intelligence and law enforcement: scanning your files (Chat Control 1.0), backdoors (Chat Control 2.0), suppression of ideas through mandatory moderation, age verification.

What we need is antitrust enforcement, breaking of digital locks, and adversarial interoperability. This can be accomplished through certain forms of regulation, but you need to be specific or you’re going to get the bad kind of regulation.

InsideOutSanta 6 hours ago | parent [-]

It's pretty obvious from context and from the specific example what I'm talking about.

iamnothere 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Didn’t mean to criticize, I see the word “regulation” thrown around often here without any clarification, and sometimes the people using it don’t have our best interests in mind.

casey2 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Hiring someone to make an alternative. If your country makes labor difficult to buy then that's on your country, not Apple.

InsideOutSanta 9 hours ago | parent [-]

The apps you actually need to participate in society (digital IDs, banking apps, etc.) will never run on your homegrown OS. Having a billion dollars changes nothing about the fact that you need either iOS or a Google-blessed Android version.

iamnothere 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Then perhaps we should have regulations to ensure that social participation is not locked behind these gatekeepers.

In particular, government and financial services should not require smartphones. Especially in an era when devices often require an “account” with the manufacturer that can be suspended or cancelled.

InsideOutSanta 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Exactly.

Noaidi 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Regulation is a part of it.

But most of tehse companies make money off of the services. So if you want tos end Apple a message, cancel all your services...Music, iCloud, etc.

Android phones are easy to use without a google account.

zaik 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> easy to use without a google account

I'm doing that and I had to get a second phone with a Google account just for banking and government apps. Not exactly easy I would say.

Kuyawa 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You forgot Harmony OS from Huawei used by 50 million people, oh wait, no you can't vote on anything

ahartmetz 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That one is aligned with another totalitarian-lite country, not great.

greenavocado 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Harmony OS is de-facto blacklisted by the American junta to prevent competition for their propaganda.

InsideOutSanta 9 hours ago | parent [-]

Huawei can't sell fully functional phones anywhere outside of China, including in Europe. You need Google Mobile Services and the Google Play Store to be able to install stuff like your banking app, and the US government is preventing Huawei from shipping phones with it. China has its own app ecosystem, so they're fine locally but screwed everywhere else.

greenavocado 9 hours ago | parent [-]

My point precisely