| ▲ | stevesimmons a day ago |
| Speaking as a European, current foreign policy is not "reducing trust in America as a reliable and stable partner". It has already reduced trust to rock bottom. It's hard to see how much worse it could get, short of outright invasion or allying with Russia. Just this week, amongst other news: * America's useless adventures in Iran have used up so many Patriot missiles there aren't any left to defend Kyiv against Russian missiles, while Iran is still firmly in control of the Straits of Hormuz. * Meddling in Greenland went up a notch with landing equipment to start oil drilling. * State Department funding MAGA-oriented "free speech" disinformation campaigns in the UK. * The revival of Trump's tariffs under the hypocritical guise of guarding against slave labour. Especially when the US prison system is such a large domestic source of slave labour. Zero trust left here. Zero desire to visit the US ever again. |
|
| ▲ | amarcheschi a day ago | parent | next [-] |
| I feel it is hard to grasp for an American how much perception of US shifted in eu. This is just anedoctal of course, but a famous Italian singer famous for having written a song about American and sexual liberation decades ago, wrote an updated version. The former is "America", the latter is "America INC." You can guess which one depicts America in a bad light. I wouldn't have expected a famous singer to make such a song, given that America was always portrayed in italian pop music with a positive image, and negative views were relegated to mostly political groups or singers with political themes |
| |
| ▲ | StilesCrisis 21 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Why do you think Americans don't grasp it? There are really two groups here: - MAGA who doesn't care what Europe thinks
- not-MAGA who are just as shocked and disappointed as everyone else on the planet | | |
| ▲ | amarcheschi 17 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Simply put, I think Americans don't grasp it because even for us Europeans it is sometimes surprising how repentine and fast the shift has been in the regular Joe's brain - I'm not saying that Americans are stupid bla bla thing -, I'm saying that it is normal not be as up to date with some phenomena as people living where that phenomena happens. Also, at least the Italian government is still dancing the tip tap regarding a position on America, not taking any definitive stance or doing anything significantly different than before, which is a big rift wrt what people want. Only exception for defense expenses | |
| ▲ | vrganj 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I don't think the first group understands how important Europe is to America's status as superpower, while the second group operates under the delusion that the world will go back to business as usual after the next presidential election. | | |
| ▲ | davkan an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Only the elderly who are blind to the decline and can’t even picture a world order outside other than Pax Americana believe we will go back to business as usual. The rest of us realize it will take decades of stability to gain a semblance of the trust we used to be granted. And in the mean time the rest of the world will forge ties that don’t include us. We will be weakened on the world stage compared to status quo prior to trump for the rest of my life I’m sure. | |
| ▲ | bladeacidic 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You think there's gonna be a next one? He's installed his own people in all the right places, and got his own Praetorian guard. | |
| ▲ | wat10000 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Plenty of us in the second group don't think the world will go back to business as usual. | | |
|
| |
| ▲ | xyzelement a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | DennisP 21 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The US has been the foundation of European security since the beginning of NATO. Now Europe has good reason to think that American security guarantees are no longer reliable, and the US president keeps threatening to invade a European country, while Russia fights a war of aggression nearby. If I were European then I guess I'd find this rather more worrying than brown people moving in, or the struggles of car companies. | | |
| ▲ | andsoitis 20 hours ago | parent [-] | | > If I were European then I guess I'd find this rather more worrying than brown people moving in What does "brown people" mean? It seems like such a superficially racist characterization. | | |
| ▲ | ipaddr 17 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | In Europe it means Muslims and in North America is means South American. In China it means Indians. | | |
| ▲ | andsoitis 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | > In Europe it means Muslims and in North America is means South American. In China it means Indians. Interesting. Thanks, I didn’t know that the Chinese used the phrase “brown people” to refer to Indians. Or that Mexicans (part of North America) use “brown people” to mean South Americans. It seems such a weird phrase to use. Is it white people who use the phrase? Or also brown people themselves? What about sub-Saharan Africa? Do they have a group they label “brown people”? Thanks for educating me. |
| |
| ▲ | DennisP 20 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I assumed that was what the commenter above was talking about, but perhaps I'm wrong. From the little I know about it, most of the immigrants that right-wing Europeans complain about are from places to the south. In case my understatement made things unclear, it's not the sort of thing I worry about at all. | | |
| ▲ | andsoitis 20 hours ago | parent [-] | | > most of the immigrants.... are from places to the south. and hence "brown"? What does that terminology even mean? | | |
| ▲ | DennisP 20 hours ago | parent [-] | | Are you not aware of the protective effects of melanin from higher levels of UV? | | |
| ▲ | andsoitis 20 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Are you not aware of the protective effects of melanin from higher levels of UV? You're missing the point. | | |
|
|
|
|
| |
| ▲ | Hnrobert42 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Will my kids be an ethnic minority in their own country in the next generation - and if so, what's that going to be like for them? What about this is an essential concern for you? Like, what are the potential harms? | | |
| ▲ | andsoitis 21 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > > Will my kids be an ethnic minority in their own country in the next generation - and if so, what's that going to be like for them? > What about this is an essential concern for you? Like, what are the potential harms? European countries take great care in maintaining and strengthening their traditions and cultural heritage. That would be at risk. Now, whether or not that actually matters or not is debatable, but Europeans DO seem to care to keep their cultures and traditions alive. | | |
| ▲ | kwdev 20 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This fear of "the others" that don't look like us or dare to have their own culture coming and "stealing" your cake has been used as a cheap distraction tactic for ages. It backfired for Germany, it's gonna backfire for the US. I really like this metaphor: A politician, a voter, and an immigrant are at a BBQ. There's 100 sausages on the grill.
The politician goes up, takes 99 sausages, turns to the voter and says "quick, that immigrant is gonna steal your sausage". It's truly frustrating how effective it is to distract the general population by just inciting fear like that. I lived all over the place after growing up in the Catholic German country side. I think the places most afraid from cultural dilution are the ones that needed it the most. It's also so funny how folks in the US keep forgetting that they literally used to be immigrants of all sorts of origins and what made them so successful is leveraging the diverse perspectives. Most of this whole AI boom is based on work from people that came to the US from less privileged places all working together for something greater than them. | | |
| ▲ | andsoitis 20 hours ago | parent [-] | | Totally agree. What do you think about all the money and energy that European countries spend on propping up their traditions and cultural heritage VS just letting it evolve "naturally" as demographics shift? |
| |
| ▲ | nativeit 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What are all these presently dominant cultures that are so fragile that the mere presence of others represents an existential threat? Sounds like an excuse for xenophobia more than a sincere concern. | |
| ▲ | convolvatron 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | you can't fault people for being confused. just because some people in the US have latched on 'cultural integrity' as their new favorite racist dogwhistle doesn't mean that it makes sense at all to anyone else. its really funny. some people are fighting a fictional war that the 'other side' isn't really engaged in, and they're losing. the other funny thing is that if you asked someone what the largest threat to their cultural identity is, a lot of them wouldn't answer immigrants - they would be more concerned about the cancerous US style anodyne consumer culture and media as being the most corrosive |
| |
| ▲ | fabioborellini 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | He knows how white Americans treat minorities | | | |
| ▲ | xyzelement 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I think there are very few countries that can claim to have a good setup for an ethnic minority. Singapore, US, Israel, western Europe. Most of the world - being an ethnic minority sucks. As western Europe changes the ethnic western Europeans may not enjoy their treatment. | | |
| ▲ | bdangubic 19 hours ago | parent [-] | | I would rather have my entire body waxed that be an ethnic minority for a month in the countries you listed (minus Singapore) | | |
| ▲ | xyzelement 19 hours ago | parent [-] | | What are the counties not on my list where it's better to be an ethnic minority? | | |
| ▲ | bdangubic 17 hours ago | parent [-] | | canada and norway for sure but you probably don’t want to be ethnic minority anywhere unfortunately | | |
| ▲ | xyzelement 16 hours ago | parent [-] | | What's an example of an ethnic minority that's better off in Canada vs US | | |
| ▲ | blooalien 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | > What's an example of an ethnic minority that's better off in Canada vs US Considering our current "leadership" here in the USA, probably any minority with any shade of "brown" to their skin-tone? | | |
|
|
|
|
| |
| ▲ | gspr 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | To racists, people who look different are inherently harmful. Racists are terrible. |
| |
| ▲ | khriss 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Will my kids be an ethnic minority in their own country in the next generation - and if so, what's that going to be like for them? Are you sure they are not more concerned about 'Will my kids be able to get a good job, own a house and generally be at least as prosperous as me, if not more?' | | |
| ▲ | xyzelement 17 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That's item 2. | |
| ▲ | ipaddr 17 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | But they won't get good jobs or own a house because they will be second class citizens. Your generation made poor choices and they will suffer. | | |
| ▲ | danaris 17 hours ago | parent [-] | | You know what the best way is to ensure that your children don't become second-class citizens because they're an ethnic minority? Treat the ethnic minorities well today. Lay the foundation for an inclusive, multicultural society now, rather than falling for the same old bullshit about immigrants stealing yer jerbs and using that as an excuse for rampant racism that will reverberate down the line. |
|
| |
| ▲ | gizajob 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Only if you're some kind of lunatic, propaganda-believing racist. | | | |
| ▲ | latexr 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Will my kids be an ethnic minority in their own country in the next generation - and if so, what's that going to be like for them? It occurs to me that an effective solution to that problem might be to… Treat minorities well? You know, like people equal to you? Societies are made of the people in them; if minorities are treated positively, then you don’t have to fear being in one. Teach your kids to be nice. | |
| ▲ | surgical_fire 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I live in Europe, and I have a family. If you are not a moronic racist, #1 is a non-issue. As for #2, Volkswagen is far from going out of business. In any case, trade with China can be adjusted with adequate policy, EU as a trade block can handle it just fine. As an European, I see the US as an actual existential threat to Europe. China is just a trade partner with some clashing trade interests. | |
| ▲ | mschuster91 a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Will my kids be an ethnic minority in their own country in the next generation I didn’t expect having to read great replacement bullshit on Hacker News. JFC do some napkin math, it’s utter nonsense. | | |
| ▲ | preg_match 21 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | These people never say "great replacement theory", because they know if they do then that firmly puts them in the "flat earther" aisle. So, we need to call it out when we see it. This is just not legitimate ideology, it's a form of white supremacy. | | | |
| ▲ | surgical_fire 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's pervasive. Especially when it is people from the US commenting on the EU. | | |
| ▲ | jurgenburgen 21 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It’s MAGA ideology and commenters mentioning it are just revealing their red hats. Any Europeans regurgitating that _foreign_ ideology are pathetic. | | | |
| ▲ | ipaddr 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | RevEng 17 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It didn't happen in Canada, unless you mean the part where we rounded up all the natives and put them on reserves. I'm a white Canadian born and raised in Canada and I am far from being a minority no matter where I go, from the prairies to the GTA. Conservatives keep talking about this like it's a thing, but they do so from their majority white communities. The only places you see large numbers of immigrants is in low paying service jobs and you can thank the exploitive hiring practices of major companies like Tim Hortons - the people there are slaves living under the constant threat of deportation if they disappoint their employer/owner. It's also worth noting that those white people concerned about becoming ethnic minorities are themselves immigrants. British and French colonists; German, Ukrainian, Hungarian, Irish; Hutterite and Mennonite - all immigrants, many within just the last few generations. For as long as Canada has been a country, it has been made up of many groups of different ethnicities, all immigrants. "White" isn't an ethnicity. | | |
| ▲ | surgical_fire 17 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Good answer. Too bad the people that should get the message are barely literate. | | |
| ▲ | ipaddr 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | People with other ideas are barely literate. Said someone who feels good about himself today but couldn't offer up actual facts and offered nothing to the conversation. |
| |
| ▲ | ipaddr 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You are a minority in Toronto if you are white and less than 20% if you are British. Edmonton is 53% white and going down fast. Vancouver is down to 45%. GTA 43% white. If you are in tech or government or banking or any large corp you are a minority. Things have changed. | | |
| ▲ | vrganj 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | If you are a native American, y'know, the actual native people of Canada, you've been a minority in your own damn country for centuries. Those damn whites did their Great Replacement a long time ago. Foreign invaders displacing the native culture. | | |
| ▲ | ipaddr 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | Happened to the people before these natives. Don't let the same thing happen to you. | | |
|
|
| |
| ▲ | surgical_fire 20 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's not some chaps from Eastern Europe, Latin America, or Africa that threaten me. My neighbor is Nigerian, dude is chill. Loves football, takes his children to the local playground, etc. What threatens me is imbeciles that believe in great replacement and 14 words about future for white children. Keep your racism across the pond and try not to breed with siblings. | | |
| ▲ | ipaddr 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | Just to clarify, you don't believe that the white population will be replaced in your country or you welcome it? | | |
| ▲ | surgical_fire 18 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I both don't believe that the white population is being replaced, and even if it was, I don't care. I am not a racist, my family tree does not resemble a circle. Issues of migration and fertility rate are related to structural incentives and constraints, level of urbanization, economic development, etc. I want my country to prosper. It won't prosper by closing itself off to migration. I hope it attracts more researches and highly educated people from around the world, especially now that the US is shunning them. | | |
| ▲ | ipaddr 17 hours ago | parent [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | surgical_fire 17 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > The natives in Europe are white. You are bundling a lot of ethnicities, many of those who historically had major grievances amongst themselves, in race bullshit very specific to the US. A "white" label is very meaningless this side of the pond. I have little patience for this shit, the US truly is a sick place if your rhetoric is what it produces. | | |
| ▲ | ipaddr 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I understand white people not identifying with each other and supporting each other. Other racial groups stick together and that's why you are hearing people say wake up from across the pond. In the end what you don't value will disappear including your nation. | |
| ▲ | convolvatron 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | one thing that largely undermines even the notion of US whiteness is that 50 years ago the definition of white was very different. Italians were swarthy and not properly white. Irish, while ostensibly white in color, were a degenerate race. Half of the 'white' people in the US are race traitors because they just don't believe in this crap in the first place, and apparently they are on the chopping block too. Arbitrary bigotry always finds a way to claim that it represents a truth. |
| |
| ▲ | vrganj 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > The natives in Europe are white. This is such a silly way to out yourself as absolutely clueless. I would invite you to go to Croatia and explain to them how they're the same ethnicity as Serbians and they even speak the same goddamn language. Please stop making grand proclamations about how our continent should act when it's obvious you don't understand even the most basic conditions. | | |
| ▲ | ipaddr 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | If we went to Croatia and Serbia both wouldn't concern themselves white or they wouldn't consider the other as white? What would they call themselves? I think they would consider themselves white from a different nations. Many north american natives come from different tribes but they are still Indian. Same thing. | | |
| ▲ | vrganj 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | They'd consider themselves Croatian and Serbian. Whiteness is an American construct that is absolutely meaningless and smushes literal millenia of history into OBE category because your country's history is so short. Please refrain from spreading nonsense you clearly know nothing about. |
| |
| ▲ | surgical_fire 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > I would invite you to go to Croatia and explain to them how they're the same ethnicity as Serbians and they even speak the same goddamn language. Telling anyone in the balkans they are the same as their neighbors because they are white will always be a fun exercise. Except Greeks of course, who are widely recognized to be north African. |
|
|
| |
| ▲ | techgnosis 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
|
|
|
| |
| ▲ | xyzelement 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I was going to argue but seemingly the math does work out | |
| ▲ | ipaddr 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | edmundsauto 19 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It’s interesting how you zero in on skin color rather than culture. Many of the other dog whistles at least try to focus on culture and religion, but you went right ahead to equate skin color as being the issue. Bravo! | | |
| ▲ | ipaddr 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't see Asian countries like Japan, Korea or China welcoming in masses of other nationalities. I see African countries trying to push out white populations. Iran/Iraq or Israel isn't opening their doors to Indians or Africans or .... I don't see India allowing Africans to migrate or Chinese or.... Why should white majority countries loses their white majority and power while other countries keep their nation states? |
| |
| ▲ | goatlover 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | What if I told you the history of humanity is migration and mixing? That populations don't stay the same over time? That there were even other hominids sharing the planet with for a long time, some of which migrated to places before we did. | | |
| ▲ | ipaddr 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | History of humanity is conqoring other tribes. Those other hominds don't exist anymore with some humans carrying a small percentage of their dna. White majority countries will become another majority race because people like yourself don't see any value in people with white skin. Other races do and they will represent the future. China is still going to be Chinese so is Japan going to remain Japanese, so is India going to remain Indian. They see their value. White majority countries have been told they have no value and they will disappear. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| ▲ | ungovernableCat a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| There is a lot of that with the population but I don't see it at the leadership level yet. The top politicians are all still desperate to go back to the good old days of euro-atlanticism (and all the cushy positions it gets their friends & family), there's also the problem of all of their capital happily sitting and growing in fortune 500 companies. |
|
| ▲ | andsoitis 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > It's hard to see how much worse it could get, short of outright invasion or allying with Russia. Why would the US ally with Russia, who is a Chinese and Iranian ally? That's just uncritical thinking. The United States is the single largest bilateral provider of direct military equipment, intelligence, and defense funding to Ukraine (a European country) against Russia. |
| |
| ▲ | latexr 21 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Why would the US ally with Russia, who is a Chinese and Iranian ally? I don’t think the comment above you is suggesting that is a possibility, but rather saying “things are so bad that the only imaginable way to get worse would be <outlandish unimaginable scenario>”. In other words, it seems to be hyperbole. | | |
| ▲ | andsoitis 21 hours ago | parent [-] | | Perhaps, though my reading between the lines is that they think trust is so low because the US won't help defend Europe and might invade Europe, even though, despite rhetoric, all actions point to the opposite happening. |
| |
| ▲ | bjelkeman-again 20 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It is, as the USA has a large population. We can be more nuanced. By absolute dollars, single country: US > EU institutions > Germany > UK By absolute dollars, bloc vs. bloc: EU/Europe combined (~$237bn+) now exceeds the US (~$130bn), especially after 2025 By per-capita/GDP burden: tiny front-line states (Denmark, Estonia, Lithuania, Norway) far outstrip both the US and the larger Western European economies — the US actually ranks closer to the bottom of the pack on a relative-effort basis, behind Germany, the UK, and virtually all Nordic/Baltic states Between February 2022 and January 2025, average expenditure per European resident stood at $394; by April 2026 that figure had risen to $618, driven by the total spending by European NATO countries on Ukraine exceeding $237 billion, including $96 billion contributed just since January 2025. Average European (across NATO's European members) $618 per person (2022-2026) United States (my estimate: ~$130bn total ÷ ~340m population)≈ $384 per person |
|
|
| ▲ | Hnrobert42 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| That is an indisputably rough list, and I'm sorry that's your conclusion. It's tough being here and feeling powerless to stop it. Beyond voting, campaign donations, judicious choice of employment, etc. Anyhow, you're welcome back should you change your mind. In my book, anyway. |
| |
| ▲ | spiderfarmer 21 hours ago | parent [-] | | > feeling powerless to stop it You guys are the meekest sheep to ever been led astray by a howling, undisguised wolf. What more does this regime have to do to warrant massive, historic, disruptive, non-peaceful protests in the USA? Have you seen protests in France? Bringing the country to a halt is the least you have to do in order for us to ever have faith in the USA again. Until then, nothing any US citizen can say online will do anything to restore trust. If you're not rioting, you're complicit. It's as simple as that. | | |
| ▲ | techdmn 21 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I admit I haven't followed the French protests as closely as I should have. Do they shoot protestors in the face with teargas canisters there too? Maybe they do. Do those protestors face the real possibility of medical bankruptcy if they need extensive care? Does France enforce laws that protect striking workers? | |
| ▲ | Henchman21 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Where do you live? Does everyone have an AR-15 in their closet? You do not seem to grasp the reality of our situation. | |
| ▲ | wat10000 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The problem with the US is not the regime, it's the people. We elected Trump a second time with ~50% of the vote after seeing four years of his complete buffoonery. His approval rating is still around 40%. If he were somehow to run again in 2028 (never mind it being unconstitutional), there's a pretty solid chance he'd win. His party still backs him 100%, and nobody has any idea whether they'll maintain control of Congress after the midterms, because they still have enough support to plausibly keep their majority. It's not about being too meek to fix things. It's about half the country wanting what's happening. | | |
| ▲ | spiderfarmer 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | If you don’t want to fight for the things you care about, you don’t deserve them. Giving up before even trying anything is completely absurd to me. |
|
|
|
