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amluto 2 hours ago

Another odd observation about the industry. For better or for worse, I inherited a little system controlled by a Fanuc PLC. It had a bug and would occasionally get stuck in a bad state. By some minor miracle, I managed to track down the person who had originally programmed it (now retired and moved out of state), and he emailed me a file and introduced me to his apprentice (who lives in a third state). I found a trial version of the design software, opened the file and found the bug (despite never having seen this style of programming before). Since I had no way to upload a new file (and since it wasn’t clear that uploading it without a matching outdated and not easily available copy of the programming environment would be wise), I convinced the apprentice to come visit while we was nearby for another client. He did not see the bug even when I pointed it out, but I convinced him to make the change and upload the modified file. Now the system works. (He had a Windows laptop with a giant folder of customer files, of course.)

While he was on site, I asked him why there was nothing on the PLC or its enclosure to identify his old boss or give any contact information, and he seemed surprised and told me that no one ever does that. I asked how a new owner is supposed to get support, and he shrugged.

If this thing ever fails, I’ll probably replace it with an Arduino or an ESP32 or something along those lines. Or I’ll just find something off the shelf to replace the entire system.

polishdude20 2 hours ago | parent [-]

The best thing they could do to new PLC's would be to have the src code live alongside the firmware inside. So any new person would be able to open it and reason about it.

ssl-3 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

You mean like, just hang a thumb drive on a lanyard inside of the cabinet -- with source code and such?

That will probably just disappear. Maybe with good intention or maybe with bad, but it's probably gone either way.

If it doesn't disappear, then it's hanging right there for any of the competitors to use. That's a problem for the original installer's ongoing employment.

And if it includes the programming software, then that lets Joe (from over in shipping) have a go at rejiggering the packaging machine. That's a problem for whoever has to pay someone with a clue to show up and fix it.

procarch2019 30 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Even more so, if it’s just there you’re making it easy for the customer to find someone bidding less to execute new projects. Guess who they’re calling if they don’t have the plc project (or don’t understand they need it). Job security.

Plus, yea, someone could really make a mess even if they have the best intention. A guy from my company almost uploaded the wrong program to a large bioreactor. At best it would have made the bioreactor just unusable until corrected. At worst it could have broken the equipment or caused a safety issue. This guy had been around the block a few times too. Luckily someone noticed before it was too late.

skinfaxi an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> If it doesn't disappear, then it's hanging right there for any of the competitors to use. That's a problem for the original installer's ongoing employment.

Is that really an issue? Do PLC vendors have concerns about other vendors turning up and yanking USB drives out of critical infrastructure with reckless abandon? Do the facilities themselves see no issue with potential vendors yanking operational utilities out of their systems while they are running?

coryrc an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Relatedly, I made an embedded product. I built a live CD (yes this was a while ago) for my employer with the entire development environment. As long as you can find an x86 machine with CD-ROM you could build, compile, test, and program using the exact environment I did twenty years ago.

Maybe today I'd do micropython on ESP32. Download text file from device, edit, upload back on.

aliasxneo an hour ago | parent | next [-]

There's at least one customer out there who has an RPi with NixOS on it from me. Probably still works to this day. It was the best use of NixOS I think I've ever found.

Kim_Bruning an hour ago | parent [-]

I've switched up to NUC-ish hardware which WAS cheap until recently. All the components just a bit higher quality than the lowest-bidder you get on the Pi. Run nixos on that and you've got a really solid platform.

xtajv 28 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Same. (Flash drive + busybox edition).

an hour ago | parent | prev [-]
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