> In a sworn deposition in the Epic lawsuit, Phillip Shoemaker, the former head of the App Review team, said employees in his department generally did not have a technical background in computer coding. They needed to know how to use a Mac and an iPhone, he said.

> “Qualifications were that they could breathe, they could think,” he said. And they typically worked at the Apple “Genius Bar” at the company’s retail stores. It typically took about 13 minutes to review a new app, Shoemaker said in the deposition.

ceejayoz 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

They're likely just ticking boxes on a checklist - does the app crash, does the app have a privacy policy, does the app permit chat?

Nothing about level one app review should need coding skills. Appeals, maybe, but even there, it's almost never about the code.

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Grombobulous a day ago | parent | prev [-]

This isn't really a bad thing. That's exactly what you want from an app reviewer. You want someone who has critical thinking skills but is looking at the app from the perspective of a typical customer.

Anything involving technical code review of apps on Apple's scale should be automated anyway.

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lapcat a day ago | parent [-]

> has critical thinking skills

That's not what the court testimony said. Could think does not imply could think critically, especially not when preceded by "could breathe", which is an absurdly low bar. Might as well say, "not literally dead".

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Grombobulous a day ago | parent [-]

You just chopped off the other part of the sentence to change the meaning.

> “Qualifications were that they could breathe, they could think,” he said.

“They could think” implies critical thinking skills.

Then the next sentence says they usually work at the Genius Bar, which is not at all an entry level role.

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lapcat a day ago | parent [-]

> “They could think” implies critical thinking skills.

No, it does not. What do you think "they could breathe" implies? That they were athletes?

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Grombobulous 18 hours ago | parent [-]

I think you’re purposefully misinterpreting the meaning of the quote to be a contrarian or to hate on Apple. I’m not a big fan of big corporate duopoly Apple, either, but I’m also not a fan of twisting words.

It’s clear that the meaning of the quote is that Apple doesn’t look for strict technical qualifications (“they could breathe”), they instead look for people who show an ability to think critically (“they could think”).

The passage also says that the app reviewers tend to be Genius Bar employees, which is a second level role within an already competitive high tier retailer. I.e., Apple retail rejects a lot of retail employees that go on to work for other retailers that have lower pay and benefits (most of the rest of the retail industry), and then out of those people who get accepted, many are rejected to work in the Genius Bar handling repairs and troubleshooting.

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lapcat 17 hours ago | parent [-]

> I think you’re purposefully misinterpreting the meaning of the quote to be a contrarian or to hate on Apple.

"Assume good faith." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

By the way, I'm a longtime App Store developer, so my criticism of the App Store is not shallow.

> It’s clear that the meaning of the quote is that Apple doesn’t look for strict technical qualifications (“they could breathe”), they instead look for people who show an ability to think critically (“they could think”).

I don't think that's clear. I would point out that the testimony was under oath, on penalty of perjury, so it would be personally dangerous for Shoemaker to lie. I interpret Shoemaker's remarks as admitting that Apple basically needed warm bodies for the job and didn't have strict qualifications. This aligns with my own experience as an App Store developer, dealing with Apple reviewers, who often seem completely clueless.

With regard to the Genius Bar, the term "genius" has also been more marketing than anything else. Moreover, in the context, I believe that Shoemaker was testifying about the origins of the App Store. In other words, in 2008 when Apple opened the App Store, they recruited reviewers from among current employees at Apple retail stores. Shoemaker said that reviewers "typically" worked at the Genius Bar, not that reviewers invariably or were required to have worked at the Genius Bar. The App Store itself was thrown together very quickly, after the "sweet solution" of web apps fell on dead ears. Steve Jobs hadn't originally wanted third-party apps on the iPhone. It's unclear whether Apple today is still recruiting App Store reviewers from their retail stores, and of course the volume of submitted apps today is vastly greater than the relatively small number back in 2008.

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16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

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Grombobulous 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I was not assuming bad faith, I was interpreting your meaning based on the words you said.

I’m also an iOS developer and while there are a lot of things about the app review process that should be changed, I wouldn’t describe any of my reviewers as clueless. Maybe you’ve submitted more apps than me, though, and maybe you got a bad one. Like you said, app volumes are huge, so that’s probably a statistical inevitability regardless of company hiring and training practices.

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lapcat 15 hours ago | parent [-]

> I was not assuming bad faith, I was interpreting your meaning based on the words you said.

Where exactly does "to be a contrarian" or "to hate on Apple" come from my words? That was bad faith psychological speculation, not an interpretation of my words.

You said that I purposefully misinterpreted the meaning of the quote. That is literally assuming bad faith. I'm not sure what you think assuming bad faith is, if not that.

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