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randomImmigrant 6 hours ago

The metabolic science is really cool. The conclusion that life arose twice requires you to buy that proto-cells that grew on these vents and needed those metallic surfaces to survive didn’t count as “life”. Then, free living cells, bacteria and archea, could maybe be argued as having independent paths as they plugged the gaps in their metabolism independently. Same DNA/RNA, same proteins. Same broad rules of metabolism. Just some alternate paths through chemical space to plug in the metabolic gaps and get free from metal surfaces.

To me, these are clearly not independent paths, but rather the branching of proto-life into two of the great kingdoms of life. It’s a stretch to call this two origins rather than a branching.

Then a couple billion years later, one of em ate the other, and rather than destroy it, they both started a symbiotic relationship, and we were off to the eukaryotic race. This is all the same web of life. Not two independent streams.

mycall 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You would think there would be some isolated places where proto-life still exists for this to be true.

randomImmigrant 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

No, because conditions have changed markedly. For metals to act as catalysts, and replace some metabolic enzymes, they need to be in highly reduced conditions. This was true in early Earth, but about 2.5 billion years ago, we had the great oxygenation event, and over the next billion years free oxygen has gone up enough that you won’t find the reduced conditions where metal can take over the job of metabolic enzymes in much of Earth anymore.

That is, what sustains today’s life prevents new proto-life for forming. You need to have the fancy gadgets life has today to continue to survive and replicate on Earth.

Note though, it was other life forms that contributed to the great oxygenation event, too. This is all a continuous web.

EA-3167 4 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Geology over large time-scales is profoundly unforgiving.

wwarner 12 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Maybe, or maybe it was eaten into extinction.

binaryturtle 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I always found it odd that there's only one single origin of life point or even just a single common ancestor considered in history. Shouldn't entirely new life develop all the time on earth? I mean the ingredients and building blocks are still there, the environmental situation still should work out, like availability of water, temperatures, etc. We should see a constant emergence of new life all the time. Why would that process stop, just because some other life already exists? Maybe we just can't detect this, because whatever new life happens to appear —more or less— resembles life that's already there.

ahazred8ta an hour ago | parent | next [-]

They're pretty sure the primordial environment was a hydrothermal vent in an anoxic high phosphorus soda lake with methane, ammonia, and UV exposure. Nowadays those lakes don't have the methane and ammonia, so that environment isn't there anymore. https://www.science.org/content/article/unusual-soda-lakes-m...

The surfaces of clay particles in these lakes have been dubbed "the primordial sandwich".

The early protocells were 'alive', they were self-replicating, but they required nutrients and metabolic processes that only existed near mineral surfaces and would starve if they drifted away. They had to evolve new enzymes to become 'free-living'.

So it looks like the LUCA was one of these early protocells with an incomplete metabolism.

RetroTechie 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Maybe we just can't detect this

Probably this. How would we know what such 'proto-life' (perhaps even just some self-replicating soup of chemicals, no cell wall) would look like? Where to find it? How rare its occurence? Etc etc.

Scientists might not even recognise it if happened right in front of them.

I'd put my money on coming up with a more general definition of "life", and then looking for short(est) pathways from "soup of random chemicals" to "something in there that replicates (parts of) itself".

Doesn't need to look like life as we know it, as long as some elements of "self-organising structures, something being replicated" are there.

randomImmigrant 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The ingredients and building blocks aren’t there in the same way. Because life formed, those early ingredients are now transformed, as is the environment. This blocks new life of the type that formed 4 billion years ago from forming again.

Indeed, all species branch out from that one universal common ancestor that was the first free living successful cell.

Put another way: forming life isn’t easy at all. And once it forms it changes conditions to suit its continuation, not to allow new life to form.

altcognito 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It has to survive though in the sense that it has to live long enough for us to see it. If we think of life as "spontaneously" (roughly speaking) emerging from the right conditions reasonably rarely, it has to outcompete other existing life for some time. And then there's the chance that we might not recognize it as "new" at all.

tejtm 27 minutes ago | parent [-]

A step further "novel" life (hence still simpler) made from the same raw materials as existing life would look exactly like decomposing existing life and be routinely scavenged for material.

pfdietz 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Shouldn't entirely new life develop all the time on earth?

It's possible OoL requires some exponentially unlikely step. We wouldn't realize that because of observer selection: had the step not occurred, we wouldn't be here to be thinking about it. There's a huge complexity gap between the stuff produced in OoL experiments and the simplest known life.

It's also possible OoL requires conditions that no longer exist on Earth, or that only existed in the early Earth (or wherever life got started in the Solar System). For example, if it depended on the existence of short lived radioactive isotopes or free ammonia.

NoMoreNicksLeft 36 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>ike availability of water, temperatures, etc. We should see a constant emergence of new life all the time. Why would that process stop,

Anything that's so agreeable to abiogenesis that life might spontaneously manifest, is actually pretty tasty for things already alive. They swoop in and eat it before it gets started. So, I suspect that even what the article says isn't that they both arose in the same place, but in different places separated by distance, time, and/or environmental barriers.

numeri 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'd imagine the bar for becoming new life is much higher now, because it requires finding a niche that isn't already filled by an existing organism or requires being immediately competitive with existing life.

jvanderbot 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Life is vastly faster than random chance at producing more life. So living things go fill niches faster than random chance can use those niches to produce new life.

Asraelite 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Shouldn't entirely new life develop all the time on earth?

The fact that it doesn't is a pretty simple solution to the Fermi Paradox.

Drakim 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Hash competition from life might cause them to go extinct, and even if it happens again it just gets out-competed to extinction fast.

ck2 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

the Great Oxidation Event caused all kinds of crazy stress = crazy mutations/adaptations where one eventually started our path

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event

one of my absolute favorite PBS Space Time on the subject

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abvzkSJEhKk