Remix.run Logo
saagarjha 3 hours ago

> Interior Secretary Doug Burgum said in a statement posted on X that Americans deserve an energy system built on common sense and not one dependent on "costly subsidies".

I agree. This is why we are building offshore wind and not subsidizing fossil fuels, right?

Kim_Bruning an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> not one dependent on "costly subsidies".

While paying out 1.2 billion dollars.

timacles an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Out country is ran by bunch of Lionel Hutz clones

gyanchawdhary 18 minutes ago | parent [-]

Nope. It’s run by people whose policies and action's don’t align with the world order you so badly desire.

esskay 11 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

What "world order" is this? One where cheap energy generation is seen as a good thing? Bizarre that anyone would be against a private company building solar or wind farms in this day and age.

For a guy in the ai and cybersecurity industry you seem to have incredibly poor judgement Gyan.

josh_p 11 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Oh, fuck off.

gyanchawdhary 9 minutes ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

jermaustin1 2 minutes ago | parent [-]

My guy, your account is nearly 10 years old, but your karma is only 36, and you are active on here... there is a reason. You are derisive, and abrasive, and your comments (specifically the ones that get downvoted to hell) are low-effort, and "troll-y".

You seem like you've been successful in life, you didn't get that way being low-effort, so let's apply that level of effort toward this community that has brought so many people together for their love of technology.

camillomiller a minute ago | parent | prev [-]

I’ll second Josh, fuck off, Trump simp

imglorp 20 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

jeltz 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

All kinds of power generation are typically heavily subdized in some way. I do not think this "common sense" strategy exists.

i5heu 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

"common sense" is common sense because it is not "specialised sense" or "expert sense"

So if politicians base their decisions on "common sense", they confess to not being able to use experts that refine their knowledge and position about a topic.

A "common sense" strategy is therefore what is most popular and on the basis of the understanding of laymen without deeper understanding or knowledge.

blaze33 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

For at least a few years, "common sense" has been hijacked by populist politicians, now it just means whatever simplistic idea that fits their worldview, even when it's not complicated to see that said idea is clearly misguided. The original meaning seems lost to me.

bitmasher9 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Furthermore, using the phrase “common sense” to describe an idea inherently dismisses any individual that will argue against it. They either are too dumb to have common sense, or too much of an elite to have common sense.

reactordev an hour ago | parent | next [-]

This is the word smithing they are known for. By labeling “common sense” means anyone who argues against it is against “common sense” because every argument is a strawman argument.

RobotToaster an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

It's basically become a thought terminating cliche https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A...

icantevenhold 43 minutes ago | parent [-]

It is what it is

throwaway27448 22 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That was the original meaning dating back to thomas paine. It is a term impossible to deploy in good faith.

ben_w an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Always meant that, so far as I can see.

smolder an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"Common sense" might also mean "do the simple thing" which, given how cheap it is to invest in renewable energy sources like solar farms, and how much room we have to build daytime capacity that way without large scale storage, might mean installing a lot more solar.

Don't pretend the current US admin is anything but corrupt and stupid.

throwaway173738 24 minutes ago | parent [-]

Don’t overthink it. Burgum means “don’t disagree with me I’m always right” when he says it.

latch 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"common sense" is common sense because it is the "sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts" (1).

Maybe what you meant to say is that the position isn't, in fact, "common sense", that it is neither sound or prudent?

(1) https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/common%20sense

LodeOfCode an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Keyword being "simple". The common sense solution often turns out to be unsound based on a more detailed perception of the situation

an hour ago | parent | next [-]
[deleted]
XorNot an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

i.e. "every complicated problem has a solution which is simple, elegant and wrong"

fuzzfactor 13 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Oh yes, "sound" and "prudent" haven't been in the ballpark nearly as often as they used to be :(

The dictionary definition is in spite of the fact that the phrase "common sense" is more often than ever being used to rebrand what was formerly known as "common lack of sense".

They wouldn't say it if it wasn't false :\

gadders 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There will always be a place for common sense - the Greeks used to call it phronesis or "practical wisdom".

You also need to distinguish between expert opinion and elite opinion. The two are not the same.

StilesCrisis 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In politics, "common sense" just means that they don't have a real justification. You can just apply it to anything and your base will accept it.

einpoklum 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> don't have a real justification.

Oh, but the ju$tifi¢ation is all too real for having that kind of "common sense".

an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
bs38 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You dont need deeper understanding of knowledge for everything. Ask Grandma whether she needs a chemical engineering degree to bake apple pie.

Then there is the Theory of Bounded Rationality which tells us expertise may exist but resources, time, energy, info, attention etc etc may not therefore bounds and limits of expertise alone must be recognized and solutions reached are satisficable rather than optimal. Aiming for optima when other factors havent been sorted just creates new problems.

PurpleRamen an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> Ask Grandma whether she needs a chemical engineering degree to bake apple pie.

Grandma doesn't bake with "common sense", she is using the specialized knowledge of cooking & baking.

polytely 29 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

grandma's baking knowledge isn't common sense but expertise.

ToucanLoucan an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> You dont need deeper understanding of knowledge for everything. Ask Grandma whether she needs a chemical engineering degree to bake apple pie.

You've clearly never baked before. Baking is a chemical science. You have to adjust temperatures for your freaking elevation relative to sea level. Granted some recipes are pretty forgiving, sure, but far from all, and some are downright merciless in terms of complexity and effort required.

Even people who do it constantly have items that just don't turn out because it's legitimately hard shit.

Eldt 35 minutes ago | parent [-]

You seem to have conflated a chemical engineering degree with the concept of baking being a chemical process

xtiansimon 20 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> “… without deeper understanding or knowledge.”

Ha! Like the common sense to dam migratory river systems to make hydroelectric power. Good idea at the time, and who cares about salmon. I have a toaster, and a percolator, and a new fangled “ice” box (formerly chilled by ice, now a maker of ice).

S/ My common sense says 1.2B compensation to not do something we otherwise need is bananas as opposed to the common sense—pound salt response. Good thing I’m not in government, yeah. /s

u02sgb 4 minutes ago | parent [-]

We have a hydroelectric dam near us with a salmon leap next to it. Good visitor attraction too.

It'll provide power for decades with little maintenance and not much further in the way of environmental issues now that it's built.

scotty79 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Common sense is the sense of commoners. The entirity of science if a fight against common sense.

In Poland the closest phrase to "common sense" is "na chłopski rozum" which means "according to villager's mind/smarts".

dspillett an hour ago | parent [-]

A significant part of science is plucking the true bits from common sense. A fair chunk of what we call medicine is folk remedies that stood up to rigorous testing.

teamonkey an hour ago | parent [-]

Yes, but the testing bit is what makes it a scientifically-proven method and not a folk remedy.

There are also a lot of folk remedies that have been disproven as medicine. They too were ‘common sense.’

ToucanLoucan 13 minutes ago | parent [-]

> There are also a lot of folk remedies that have been disproven as medicine. They too were ‘common sense.’

"You know what they call alternative medicine that works? Medicine." - Tim Minchin

PowerElectronix 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There are too many interested parties involved in the energy sector. The only common sense I can think of is solar+storage at the single building level and interconnected through smart grids with neighbours.

But that leaves out the government and all those interested parties so we're never ever getting that.

NuclearPM 15 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

That’s not a good idea. Millions would be left without electricity.

sdellis 8 minutes ago | parent [-]

It's a great idea if we subsidize it the way that fossil fuels are subsidized.

jtbayly 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

And in the winter in the North people are just supposed to freeze?

whizzter an hour ago | parent | next [-]

The energy mix for electricity in Sweden, Norway and Finland is mostly made up of hydro+nuclear+wind, especially wind and hydro complements each other very well since hydro is very much on-demand and can cover for most temporary wind shortfalls.

Driving through my childhood area up north a few weeks back I was also surprised by the amount of solar going up, for comparison this is an area _north of_ Anchorage/Alaska with less than 3 hours of sun around Christmas, but already by late January (usually the coldest period of the year) there is over 6 hours of sun a day (so with high pressure cold peaks with less wind, the 6 hours probably eases the power bill quite a bit).

An interesting fact about those solar installations was that the panels were mounted almost vertically (probably to avoid being snowed over but also useful in the winter since the sun mostly just shines from the south anyhow).

PowerElectronix 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Solar would produce enough power in winter. Germany is europe's top solar energy producer and is at a latitude similar to Alaska.

eigenspace 11 minutes ago | parent [-]

The very very northern tip of Germany reaches almost as far north as the southernmost tip of the Alaskan panhandle, but most of Germany is more like mid-south Canada on a latitude basis.

Northern Germany is much more specialized into wind power, and the south is more solar intensive (though solar is more evenly spread throughout the country than Wind, thanks to ease of installation, and the fact that it still produces tonnes of electricity in the summer).

Solar should be built in Alaska, but wind and hydro is what should be actively subsidized and supported by the government. The market can take care of solar penetration in Alaska if you let it.

mapontosevenths an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

North Americans mostly do not use electricity for heat in the winter. Around 60% use natural gas with forced air furnaces. Something closer to 80% have the option, but 20% don't bother to use it.

Some of the deep south get by with electric heat, but they aren't in places where the cold is a typically a legitimate danger to health and safety.

ricardobayes 12 minutes ago | parent [-]

I find something very refreshing in this, reading from Europe where we get told "gas" is the big bad, even threatening to make condensing gas boilers illegal from time to time [0], despite over 95% of homes (in the UK) being heated by this method. I gotta be honest it's just so weird living in such energy poverty in Europe. Most of Europe doesn't heat or cool adequately, Spain and Portugal barely heat their homes in winter and boy it gets cold with 41F/5C nights. Then Germany/Switzerland refuse to use A/C even though the summers get to 95F/35C. Just a few days ago a friend told me he went to the doctor and the doctor passed out during examination from the heat.

[0]: https://www.edfenergy.com/heating/advice/uk-boiler-ban

WillAdams 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Supplement w/ geothermal?

seb1204 an hour ago | parent [-]

Yes, this

windyoil 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

While I do not know if the following is relevant for the Carolina Long Bay area, and while neither Republicans nor Democrats can be trusted, it is not without precedent for offshore wind turbine projects to be disallowed due to radar concerns.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2024/11/11/why-swe...

> Why Sweden nixed new wind farms for fear of missing Russian missiles

> BERLIN — Sweden’s government this month blocked the construction of 13 offshore wind farms over concerns that they would shorten the country’s early-warning window for a Russian missile attack.

> ...

> That is because wind farms can interact with radar signals, reducing the quality of the situational air picture or even outright blocking out parts of the sky.

Other possibilities than radar concerns is that the stopping of the project here hinders corruption, or is corrupt itself, or it moves corruption around (as in both the old project and new project was corrupt). Whatever the case, a way to avoid corruption would be helpful. Perhaps like making it market-driven and contest-driven as much as possible. Solar and wind is already significantly cost-efficient and market-driven despite their significant drawbacks like not producing energy consistently and on demand. If the main challenge is creating domestic production of wind turbines and solar cells instead of being reliant on other countries and without state support ending up being mired in corruption, perhaps some bidding and contract process that moves the financial risk onto private companies, such that the government never pays in advance, could work.

I agree with posts here saying that a mosaic or plethora of energy sources should be used. Wind, solar, fossile, nuclear (for big countries like the USA at least), geothermal, etc. In general, energy companies should not be focused on just one kind, but lots of kinds.

Y-bar an hour ago | parent [-]

Wind power is a purely commercial enterprise which only requires state support for permissions to build and permissions to connect to the grid. There is no issue about state support for manufacturing of equipment.

Living here where this happens. They are stopping it for two reasons:

First on a national level they want to concentrate on their renewed push towards building new nuclear power reactors, means wind has to take second fiddle: https://www.government.se/press-releases/2026/06/sweden-take...

Second, on a local level, the far-right party "SD" is voting agaisnt wind power in 96% of the cases.

As presented here, the national government is declining 84% of all requests of requests to build wind power, ad on the local level the right wing parties vetoed wind power at a rate of 64-92%: https://research.chalmers.se/publication/?created=true&id=09...

windyoil an hour ago | parent [-]

[dead]

carlosjobim 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That leaves a lot of free energy sources untapped - especially hydro.

PowerElectronix 2 hours ago | parent [-]

If you can set up a hydro/pump dam without wrecking the ecosystem and don't need handouts to function, I'm all for it.

happosai an hour ago | parent | next [-]

People complaining about renewal electricity production with hydro/pump dams while ignoring mountaintop removal of Appalachian mountains for coal...

realreality an hour ago | parent [-]

Why not complain about both? Industrial civilization is inherently unsustainable, no matter how you try to power it.

rob74 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As opposed to fossil fuels, which are great for ecosystems, both locally and globally?

smolder an hour ago | parent [-]

Right. Gentle reminder that tuna has dangerous amounts of mercury in it specifically because of humans burning coal, not because the ocean was always so polluted.

cucumber3732842 10 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Every time they do that you just redefine wrecking.

First it was the fish ladders. Then it was a bunch of whining about how reducing the water level variation on the river is bad (particularly illustrative because this is the exact opposite logic your ilk uses when talking stormwater). Lord knows what the complaint is these days.

Why don't you just be honest and say "no"

friendzis an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> The only common sense I can think of is solar+storage

Even in Texas/California photovoltaic output in the winter is measly, anywhere more to the north and it's effectively inexistent. Solar+storage requires massive overprovisioning, to the level that it's cheaper to burn literal money.

Windmill farm outputs tend to dip during summer and peak over winter. With a given minimum power output windmills + photovoltaics + storage is massively cheaper per unit of yearly energy. Of course, if you value any semblance of network stability.

Solar+storage is clear path towards either guaranteeing reliance on fossils or brownouts. The smart energy meter you got that encourages running the washing machine during cheap hours will ensure that you voluntarily go dark during undersupply as the cost will skyrocket.

swiftcoder an hour ago | parent [-]

> Even in Texas/California photovoltaic output in the winter is measly, anywhere more to the north and it's effectively inexistent.

The northernmost point in Texas would be at the extreme southern edge of Europe. The northernmost point of California is level with the sunny French Riviera. Hell, even frozen Minnesota has about the same solar potential as northern Spain...

If Europe can make solar work, so can the states (assuming a similar level of investment)

friendzis 10 minutes ago | parent [-]

> If Europe can make solar work

Can you cite a region in Europe that physically independently covers its energy needs with solar+storage alone? </snark>

Stress on physical. Even if some regions claim renewables fully covering energy needs, that's at best on accounting level, those regions are still fully dependent on power import/export and simply could not function in an island mode for any extended period of time without at the very least brownouts. Quite importantly, it's always renewables, not solar.

The dispatchability problem is a real pain. Pool together wind + solar + hydro and the variability in power (!) output drops to levels possible to tame with realistic grid-scale storage sizes.

I am not talking about intra-day balancing here. It's the yearly cycle that comes to bite you. In my corner of Europe, if I wanted to go completely off-grid with solar+storage I would need storage well into the mid single-digit MEGA watt-hours, for the house needs (HVAC and DHW taking the lion's share) alone. That's laughably unrealistic.

> The northernmost point of California is level with the sunny French Riviera. Hell, even frozen Minnesota has about the same solar potential as northern Spain...

Yes, the southern states could probably make do with something like 3-4x overprovisioning, but that's still massive. So massive that any sort of windmill capability will outcompete any sort of COTS storage.

verandaguy an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It probably comes from the recognition that energy access being a common good, a tax-collecting government should work for its constituents in helping provide energy at a reasonable cost, especially if the subsidies support an improvement to the technology behind it.

Subsidies aren't universally a bad thing. This is silly thinking.

TeMPOraL 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Indeed. Energy is at the core of everything we do. Make it more expensive, you immediately make some people go hungry, and then you also make everything else in the economy a tad more expensive, slowing things down, and as market readjusts and contracts, this makes even more people go hungry.

There's a really strong incentive to keep energy generation cheap, because pretty much every social and political issue is downstream of it.

TacticalCoder 9 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yes. "The economy is energy, energy is the economy".

China understood this and is not just betting on both solar and nuclear like mad, they're also burning coal (so that the EU btw can cosplay being green, while offloading the production of many things it consumes to China).

As a result energy prices in China are something like 7x cheaper than in Germany.

Those with lots of energy saw their GDP growth in the 21st century while those like the EU, with ultra pricey energy (due to stupid decisions like closing nuclear power plants only to then reopen them) saw hardly any GDP growth, inflation-adjusted in USD, in the 21st century.

No GDP growth means ever more poor people and ever more indebted governments.

I'm all for transitioning away from fuel and coal, but do it pragmatically. We don't need communists (that'd be the "green" parties [1]) who want to make the lives of everybody miserable taking decisions related to energy.

[1] green people who, like watermelons, are only green on the outside and then bright extremist red on the inside

kklisura 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Just like "first principles", "common sense" differs from man to man.

eastbound 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That’s a perverse incentive against ecology, case in point. Hear me out. We take citizen’s money to subsidize energy so they can get their energy for cheaper (at marginal level - while still paying the subsidy’s taxes) so they can undertake industrial/residential projects that we wouldn’t do with less energy. In a word, we incentive people to consume more (in a consumerist sense), which is bad for ecology, because we can’t afford them, and neither can the Earth.

Of course, leaving aside how petroleum is subsidized [through the department of defense].

While ecologists usually are in favor of subsidies, subsidies incentive people to consume more, which exhausts our Earth. We should develop less, i.e. we should develop in accordance with a higher facial cost of energy, which sometimes implies having a smaller home and fewer industries, which is what would happen if we didn’t sponsor solar or wind energy [or coal or fossil].

master-lincoln 2 hours ago | parent [-]

won't happen with capitalism which has an emphasis on economic growth forever...

carlosjobim 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Economic growth also comes from getting more for less.

A company can increase their profits by growing and increasing both what they spend and what they earn. But a company can also increase their profits by reducing what they spend without decreasing what they earn. Almost all companies are constantly trying to do this.

giglamesh 31 minutes ago | parent [-]

Often (usually?) by requiring workers to do more for less pay. Automation will eventually solve this problem, but because of the need to increase profits, finding an alternative way for companies to economically support human life the way they traditionally have through employment will be a tough nut to crack.

victorbjorklund 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Does the env work better in a communist country like North Korea? Or in the Soviet Union? Or are we gonna do no true Scotsman and say Soviet was always capitalist and had no connection to communism?

master-lincoln 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Absolutely irrelevant derailing. No claim was made about communist countries...

microgpt 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Fable can answer all your questions.

ghtbircshotbe 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

And don't forget ethanol, probably the least efficient form of energy ever discovered

usrnm 2 hours ago | parent [-]

What are you talking about, it powers a lot of people I know

ghtbircshotbe 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Does it do it efficiently though?

rob74 an hour ago | parent [-]

It saves energy by making them feel warmer in the winter. If they overdo it and freeze to death, it saves even more energy.

montagg 18 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Lying bullshitters all.

These people are not interested in coherent policy. They say whatever they want to justify it, we know it, and they know we know it. It’s an intentional expression of domination.

Just another thing to prosecute and rebuild.

toomuchtodo 15 minutes ago | parent [-]

At least they’ll be out of office or age out eventually, we’ll just collectively as US taxpayers with a federal income tax burden have to pay back hundreds of billions of dollars in excess debt incurred because of this governance failure mode we experienced (or default on the debt, which is also an option).

SlightlyLeftPad 28 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> they say the noise causes cancer [1]

I mean it’s common sense

[1]: https://www.c-span.org/clip/white-house-event/user-clip-trum...

rayiner 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's even dumber than that. Someone built a wind farm near Trump's golf course in Scotland and now he hates wind farms: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c15l3knp4xyo. He thinks they're ugly and noisy.

prox 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

If this is true, this is the person some folks think is fit to lead a nation. One little thing not suiting his whim of the day? Lets hate something that helps with energy production.

Welcome the world of transactional opportunism.

dofm an hour ago | parent | next [-]

This is absolutely true. He has been angrily obsessed about this for years, and since he is a malignant narcissist with an ever greater need for narcissistic supply, his irritation has been manipulated by powerful lobbyists that tell him his instincts are brilliant and correct.

1234letshaveatw an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm sure you would welcome a data center in your backyard

wizzwizz4 31 minutes ago | parent [-]

Datacentres are a resource sink that serves private interests, not a resource source that serves public interests.

1234letshaveatw 5 minutes ago | parent [-]

does this site not serve the public interest? I hope you didn't hurt anyone's feelings

rayiner an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

anonreplier an hour ago | parent [-]

Hmm does this "aesthetic" include shrinking national parks?

ChoGGi 13 minutes ago | parent [-]

Birds get confused when they have to much greenery, you need more land strip-mined for coal to keep them safe while migrating.

whazor 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think wind farms on sea look really cool, especially if the turbines are huge. It gives some majestic feelings

BoxOfRain an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I'm not a huge fan of their aesthetic in its own right, but it beats the aesthetic of fossil fuel infrastructure any day in my view.

rayiner an hour ago | parent [-]

I like wind farms, but I think it's fair to observe that they're often built in nice places, whereas fossil fuel infrastructure is built in places you'd never go to voluntarily.

stevesimmons 42 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Lots of fossil fuel infrastructure was built in formerly nice places that now you'd never go to voluntarily...

ben_w 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> whereas fossil fuel infrastructure is built in places you'd never go to voluntarily.

IMO that's the consequence, not the cause, of the infrastructure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hambach_surface_mine

Or sometimes the consequence of the closure of that infrastructure with no transitional plan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merthyr_Tydfil

The latter is absolutely worth caring about even for the greenest of green energy. Even just PV on rooftops, when a town becomes a ghost town.

acdha 35 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Drive around Southern California and you’ll see everything from oil derricks to refineries in places which would otherwise be full of housing if they weren’t so polluting.

mafuy 5 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

That's the problem. It diminishes His Majesty Trump I.

2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
iso1631 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> He thinks they're ugly and noisy

The feeling is mutual

moritzruth an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Are you saying that wind farms think you are ugly and noisy?

vincnetas an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We don't need to "think" if they are noisy. We can measure that. So how noisy are they?

pornel 37 minutes ago | parent [-]

They're silent.

I don't know where Trump got the idea from. Perhaps he thinks they work like fans?

wizzwizz4 14 minutes ago | parent [-]

They're most certainly not silent! If you're standing right under one, you can hear it over car traffic and the breeze! (Well, unless the wind is blowing really hard: then the wind might be louder than either, considering the usual minimum distance between wind turbines and roads.) Whatever will you claim is silent next? Refrigerators? Lightbulbs?

lepton 19 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Evidently this cute comment was not understood by some.

@iso1631 is saying that wind farms (and by extension, their supporters) think Trump is ugly and noisy. So, they mutually think this of each other.

tialaramex 43 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

To be fair offshore wind is relatively expensive. A brand new wind farm is probably cheaper than burning methane because Trump started another pointless war, but it's closer than for like Solar PV.

Of course "common sense" ought to probably include "Not cooking ourselves".

louiereederson 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

While they pay a subsidy: > RWE said that it will now reinvest the sum

Marciplan an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Inferior Secretary

shevy-java 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's even more hilarious than that because all nuclear energy is heavily subsidized by taxpayers already. People such as Doug just lie strategically. No surprise in that current government of liars.

jeltz 2 hours ago | parent [-]

All forms of power generation are heavily subsidized. Anyone complaining about a particular form being subsidzed is a dishonest liar.

I am personally for building nuclear and compulimenting it with some wind and hydro, but that is not related to what things are subsidized but because nuclear and hydro has worked really well here in Sweden providing reliable power and while wind has a spottier record I think diversification is good.