3-Body-Problem once again vindicated as the scariest possible explanation for the Fermi Paradox

Many physicists have pointed out several flaws in the dark forest theory, which makes for a great read but doesn’t really carry over to the real universe 1:1.

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Schlagbohrer 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Can you point me to more info on that or just tell me? I am curious about reasons to be more optimistic than that book lays out. I would much prefer the Carl Sagan view of the Cosmos as one where it simply makes no physical nor cultural sense at all to be aggressive toward other stellar civilizations.

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graemep 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What flaws? Do they apply to variants such as Greg Bear's and related ideas such as berserkers?

	▲	pavel_lishin 5 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		Do Forge of God/Anvil of the Stars differ significantly from pretty bog-standard dark forest scenarios? I don't remember any other of his books that might apply, but I haven't read all of them. (I probably should. What I have read was great.)

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bpodgursky 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Why would physicists have anything useful to say about this theory?

	▲	59percentmore 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Because environment makes culture and physics are the environment at relativistic speeds and cosmic distances.

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criddell 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Did you intend to say dark forest hypothesis?

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istjohn an hour ago | parent | next [-]

According to physicist Sean Carroll, "hypothesis" and "theory" are interchangeable as the words are used by practicing scientists.

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rigrassm 40 minutes ago | parent [-]

I love Sean Carroll (Something Deeply Hidden and From Eternity to Here are the root of my fascination with physics and endless pondering of the nature of time) but I have to disagree with his take on this.

Hypothesis - a proposed explanation for something (such as a phenomenon of unknown cause) that is tentatively assumed in order to test whether it agrees with facts that are known or can be determined.

Theory - a scientifically acceptable or plausible general principle or body of principles based on data and offered to explain phenomena

Just because those outside of scientific fields use them interchangeably doesn't change the fact that they carry different meanings in scientific contexts.

	▲	criddell 32 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		Isn't Planck's hypothesis really a theory? Isn't string theory really a hypothesis?

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Schlagbohrer 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes!

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etangent an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

suspecting that star explosions are caused by nefarious super-intelligences is just Greek mythology with more steps.

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andrewflnr an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In what way? This is discussing, as far as anyone knows, an entirely natural phenomenon.

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echelon 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I think a fragile world hypothesis is more interesting and scary.

Instead of a superintelligence killing any emerging intelligence, superintelligence is so smart that it can perturb spacetime in ways that easily kill itself.

Kind of like the idea that LLMs will give anyone with a garage the ability to create killer viruses (wild claim), a superintelligence might trivially create black holes that engulf it. If the intelligence is distributed across many agents (or nations), someone will try something stupid that kills the entire population.

It'd be even scarier if they could accidentally collapse the supposed vacuum state. Universal annihilation at the speed of light just because you got too smart.

Fragile world / fragile universe meets "too smart for your own good".

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andrewflnr an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Leaving aside the fact that there's no evidence superintelligence is even possible, no amount of intelligence alone will let you "trivially" create black holes. Creating black holes requires a ludicrous amount of energy. Planet-scale energy, maybe solar-scale energy. Energy is conserved. You can't just think really hard and have it. At minimum you have to already have the energy and materials to build a machine that will let you (mostly build another machine that lets you) harness that much energy.

It's at least not something you'll do by accident.

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ButlerianJihad 13 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Origami Black Hole https://m.xkcd.com/3033/

"It Really Brings the Room Together" https://m.xkcd.com/1680/

M87 Size Comparison https://m.xkcd.com/2135/

Black Hole Moon https://what-if.xkcd.com/129/

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echelon an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

You don't know any of that.

We are primitive apes. We are all uniformly dumb.

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andrewflnr an hour ago | parent [-]

It's inherent to the math that defines the entire concept of a black hole, or "spacetime" in general. So to the extent we can contemplate the question at all, we can be pretty confident that creating black holes is Very Hard.

There's a lot we don't know, but the fact that the universe is consistent means it has to be consistent with what we do know already. Don't be so openminded your brain falls out.

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echelon an hour ago | parent [-]

> the fact that the universe is consistent

We don't know this either.

We are very limited in detection. Our energies are small.

How "standard" are standard candles and other references? Are the facts that stand as the basis for our theories even correct?

We are too primitive to be dealing in absolutes.

	▲	andrewflnr 18 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		> > the fact that the universe is consistent > We don't know this either. See this is what I'm talking about as far as being too open-minded. Consider what it would mean for the universe to be inconsistent, particularly in relation to the astronomical observations that are the basis of this conversation.

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alansaber 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Sounds logical to me. It's already remarkable that we haven't done this with fission weapons. It's not unreasonable to assume that within a century we'll have antimatter weapons. Destructive potential only goes up.

	▲	SoftTalker 10 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		We could not come close to destroying the world with fission weapons. We might make things very hard for humanity, but the world and life would continue, perhaps even benefit.
	▲	WarmWash 2 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Every year the IQ needed to destroy the world drops by 1 point.