I really want to love mobile Linux, and have given it multiple shots before. But I just don't see how it will catch up with iOS/Android in the same way it caught up with Windows/Mac:

- OEMs have poured an enormous amount of resources into the camera software, Linux cameras are years behind from what I understand. - Android/iOS have thoroughly optimized the UX in all sorts of subtle ways, the big one being their keyboards. I literally can't type a single correct sentence on any of the mobile linux keyboards that I've tried because there's so much proprietary magic needed under the hood to figure out what the user is trying to say (autocorrect mostly, but I recall something about how apple also virtually adjusted the sizes of the keys to make it easier to type) - GPS, banking, and now keys for your house and car all need to work.

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Gigachad 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't expect linux phones to catch up to ios for the mainstream, but I can see them working for me. I usually carry an actual camera with me so I don't care much about my phone one other than random utility shots / photos of receipts. And very much don't like the trend of forced app usage so having a device that physically won't run these apps helps me avoid companies that don't have a functional website.

	▲	AnthonyMouse 31 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		> I don't expect linux phones to catch up to ios for the mainstream, but I can see them working for me. That's the thing that allows them to catch up for the mainstream. Some nerds can use it and tolerate the rough edges, so they do. But the rough edges are still rough, so as more people use it, the small percentage of people willing to actually do something about it becomes a larger absolute number of people, and then more of them get shaved off. Which causes more people to use it. The point when the devices are usable comes long before the point that they're what the majority of mainstream consumers are buying. Desktop Linux has been there for more than a decade and year after year its market share slowly goes up. There isn't going to be a single year when its market share goes directly from 3% to 97%. There is going to be a year that its market share gets into the double digits and then continues slowly going up.

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vetrom 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Linux cameras can be made to work well, it's a matter of software. Case in point, newer Ricoh/Pentax cameras actually run an a Linux firmware. (See: GR IV and K-3 Mark II/III). Parts of the software stack are already there, but noones had the will to glue it together correctly for a mobile device usecase, yet.

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megous 3 hours ago | parent [-]

It's not about will. You need quite some HW for proper calibration, or cut corners a bit. Calibration is otherwise a few step process with some steps having substeps for each light source type.

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seba_dos1 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That's true, but you can cut corners and still end up like 90% there. The software pipelines that can even consume detailed calibration are a pretty recent development anyway. The "cameras on Linux phones are bad" meme is induced purely by the fact that until recently there were like two or three people who have ever sat down to seriously work on this topic across the entire community. Fortunately, it's changing (although the biggest driving factor appears to be the fact that some laptops need a similar treatment now).

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echelon 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

We're going to be able to dump phone firmware soon and reverse compile with LLMs.

This will become an assailable salient soon and by 2036 we should have dozens of competing phone operating systems and vendors.

We're going to do the same for robotics and everything that gets shipped to us.

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megous 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Well, rkisp1 driver that drives ISP on RK3399 on Pinephone Pro is available upstream in fully supported manner for like 4 years. It also has full docs in publicly available Rockchip datasheets and partial docs in calibration manuals.

What have people done with it? Some mediocre support in libcamera? :) I don't think lack of handholding is an issue here.

	▲	AnthonyMouse 21 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		Pinephone is a low volume product. What you need is to get the firmware for some common device that has shipped millions of units so that the number of people with the incentive to make it work is high enough to actually build a community.

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dv_dt 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ive been really annoyed at my iphone keyboard recently because it seems like a slow drift of whatever optimized state it was in was getting slower and slower. It seems to freeze partway thru typing something frequently now.

	▲	BobbyTables2 3 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		I’ve always wondered how hard it’s logging/uploading data for autocomplete/spellcheck…
	▲	genghisjahn 3 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		It could be that the HN crowd is getting older? You age, your finger tips dry out, virtual keyboards get wonky.

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jmkni 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wonder how much of that is to do with patents? I imagine Apple and Google own all sorts of patents around tech to do with the camera/keyboard etc

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mrheosuper an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think Linux need another "Wine" moment, but for android/ios.

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colordrops 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't think the differential with software is as big as it seems. If Google completely shuts down side loading or otherwise kills AOSP as an open project, you'll get a flood of millions of people into Linux devices (my rough estimate is that it's in the low millions of people using custom Android ROMs), and that's more than enough people to start building out the software ecosystem, especially with gen AI to help speed things up.

keyboard text prediction is no more complex than some of free/open AIs that we already see in the wild.

If google doesn't shut things down, then just continue to use AOSP, which is a fine open source OS for most people's use cases.

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megous 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Years behind is not bad. Pinephone Pro has solid camera sensors and dated but good enough ISP pipeline. Original Pinephone's camera situation is limited by SoC having no ISP so at best you can try using GPU to perform the transformations, or completely rely on ISP embedded in the sensors.

And all software is replicable.