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nvme0n1p1 a day ago

The outcome shouldn't depend whether they had "poor" security anyway. If I leave my front door locked, it might increase the chances I get robbed, but it doesn't make robbing me legal.

polishdude20 a day ago | parent | next [-]

It just goes to show how Saltman thinks. "If the door is open, it's not my fault I've walked in and stolen all of your stuff!"

everforward a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sure, but this is about IP law instead of physical goods.

This is like if you left your door wide open, and a neighbor peaked in and told another neighbor about your decor or what posters are on the walls.

You didn’t lose anything tangible, but something you wanted to be secret isn’t anymore. Where the balance of blame falls is up to you, but I do think to some degree that if you want to keep a secret and can’t put in the bare minimum effort to even try to protect it then you own some of the blame.

thewebguyd a day ago | parent | next [-]

The difference is there's no laws around your home decor, but there is a clear legal framework around trade secrets. Apple's allegation is that a vulnerability was exploited to access some of the data as well which, if true, carries potential CFAA criminal charges.

For trade secrets, it only requires "reasonable measures" even just having an NDA is enough, even if the rest of your security is wide open. Just because someone found a loophole or grabbed files before their access was revoked doesn't make it legal (under trade secrets law).

Almost certainly the employees at some point in their tenure at apple signed some duty of confidentiality, or some acceptable use policy, etc. which is grounds enough for illegal misappropriation. "You didn't lock down their access enough" isn't a valid legal defense.

nrmitchi a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There are absolutely laws about IP theft. That's why it's called Intellectual Property.

You really don't want the law to be "Well you didn't lose a physical thing, so why should it be illegal?"

saghm 21 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> You really don't want the law to be "Well you didn't lose a physical thing, so why should it be illegal?"

There are people who feel this way, so it's possible that the parent comment does actually want it to be this. You're 100% correct that this doesn't describe the law right now though, which is what actually matters for this lawsuit.

Der_Einzige 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Actually we really unironically do want it to be exactly like that. I don’t care if every negative externality claimed to happen happens tenfold as a result. Even 1/10th of the claimed positive externalities makes it so worth it.

Copyright trolls are ontologically evil.

ktallett 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It isn't ever quite that simple. It also depends whether that person only used information that is publicly available to deduce how to do it at the new company.

lwkl 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Having access doesn't mean you are allowed to access something. Let's say I started working at a new company and notice I can still access the source code at my old company. This doesn't mean I am allowed to download it and give it to my new employer even if we just use it as a reference.

wat10000 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

It's more like if you left your door unlocked, and I hire somebody to break into your house and make copies of documents you left sitting on the counter. They discover that the door is unlocked so their job is real easy, hooray! Doesn't matter, still very illegal, and both I and the person I hired should be prosecuted for it.

ipaddr a day ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

thewebguyd a day ago | parent | next [-]

No. Unlocked door != legal entry. "Breaking" in B&E doesn't require any physical damage. Pushing open an unlocked door or entering a place without authorization counts. If I leave my home to go to the store, and leave the door unlocked and someone walks in, they are still committing a crime.

There are also no tenant protections for criminal intruders, squatter protections require a claim of right like a disputed lease or a holdover tenancy, or continuous possession over many years. Someone that just walks into a residence is an active trespasser and can be arrested for criminal trespass or burglary.

ipaddr 17 hours ago | parent [-]

In New York state as long as you don't open the door you can wait out 30 days which give you rights. Walking through an unlocked door isn't breaking and entering at best it's trespassing.

LaffertyDev a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is not how it works. Even a cursory glance at the law makes it clear that this is not how it works.

Here is New York: https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/140.20

ipaddr 17 hours ago | parent [-]

A person is guilty of burglary in the third degree when he knowingly enters or remains unlawfully in a building with intent to commit a crime therein.

You need to prove intending to commit a crime.

maxwells-daemon a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Funny enough, I had some valuable stuff (including my passport!) stolen from my car, which I'd left unlocked because I was moving some heavy boxes. The police in my area (bay area) said they couldn't really do anything about it because they didn't break a window.

I don't know exactly what legal technicalities are involved, but this did actually happen to me in a de facto sense!

wildzzz 21 hours ago | parent [-]

That's cops being lazy because they now don't need to write a report for your car insurance to replace the non-broken window. However, your homeowners or renters insurance may cover the stolen items. In general, there's probably nothing to do about stolen items from a car because literally anyone could have done it and it's not like your car was a sterile environment to begin with (millions of fingerprints and pieces of random DNA everywhere). To give them the benefit of the doubt, why should they expel manpower and resources over items that your insurance will replace when those resources could be put to use in investigating violent crimes? Although in reality, even with photographic evidence and location tracking of the stolen items, the cops still probably won't do anything other than write a report unless it's a very slow day.

saghm 21 hours ago | parent [-]

Yeah, what this anecdote actually proves is that there's no legal protection against the cops just deciding not to do their jobs.

thewebguyd 19 hours ago | parent [-]

The supreme court doubly proved that again recently ruling that the police have no specific duty to protect individuals or even respond for that matter.

victorbjorklund a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That’s like saying it’s not manslaughter if you kill a woman because no ”man” died.

solfox a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Laws around breaking and entering date back to WELL before mechanical locks were commonplace or even affordable to residences.

ipaddr 17 hours ago | parent [-]

[dead]

drowntoge a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Do not try this at homes that belong to other people.

bakies a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No it doesnt, that's still breaking and entering

ipaddr 17 hours ago | parent [-]

Trespassing but not breaking and entering.

reluctant_dev a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ha this is the logic Richard Chase used to enter peoples homes

iwontberude a day ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

tomhow 9 hours ago | parent [-]

We've banned this account. We've asked you several times across multiple accounts to observe the guidelines. You know this isn't acceptable.