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Laurel1234 3 hours ago

Photography is a form of art and requires human work and creativity, it isn't some clanker slop.

iamwil an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Your quick take lacks perspective. Photography wasn't always viewed to be art. Critics called photography "slop" in its infancy for a long while. See Charles Baudelaire for his 1800's take on photography:

> As the photographic industry was the refuge of every would-be painter, every painter too ill-endowed or too lazy to complete his studies, this universal infatuation bore not only the mark of a blindness, an imbecility, but had also the air of a vengeance. I do not believe, or at least I do not wish to believe, in the absolute success of such a brutish conspiracy, in which, as in all others, one finds both fools and knaves; but I am convinced that the ill-applied developments of photography, like all other purely material developments of progress, have contrib­uted much to the impoverishment of the French artistic genius, which is already so scarce.

Harsh. It wasn't a fringe view either. I encourage you to read how much creatives despised photography.

This argument was transferred to film when it first came out as well. It took a long while and a couple court cases before it was accepted that it took editorial choice for a photograph and film to be good. When it was accepted that to be the case, despite the aspects of mechanical reproduction, it was also accepted into the pantheon of fine art.

So it will be for AI generated images and video. So far, I've seen nothing inherent in the properties of AI generated media as a medium that obviates a human editorial eye. Even if AI could exercise comparable judgement, we will like an image because we want the curation of a specific person.

In Grant Sanderson's interview with Dwarkesh Patel about the future role of mathematicians (36:25), he says:

> One interesting take that I've heard about what mathematicians will end up being is that it's actually more analogous to art museum curators than anything else. The AI solved the thing, so the art exists. They even know how to explain it really well. But you still want someone to help you navigate this nearly infinite space of what ideas are worth engaging with. Even if AIs were in some sense better at that, I think we would always still prefer a human that we had a relationship with, because the way we get motivated to be interested in things is a social phenomenon. If you have some specific technology you're trying to build, that might be different. But the people listening to this podcast trust your curation on what's an interesting topic in the first place. It's not that they're landing here because whatever your next topic is, that's what they wanted to understand in a prior sense. They're trusting you as a curator. So my role, and arguably that of other mathematicians, might actually just shift subtly into that curation direction of what ideas are worth pursuing. That's a lot of my job right now.

Hence, I think there will be a role for AI generated images and video to be elevated into the fine art in the next couple of decades, and we'll see them in museums and exhibitions--as well more mundane uses like what's sitting on your phone right now--just like how photographs are used today.

Laurel1234 24 minutes ago | parent [-]

> Hence, I think there will be a role for AI generated images and video to be elevated into the fine art in the next couple of decades, and we'll see them in museums and exhibitions

Show me one example of AI "art"

iamwil 13 minutes ago | parent [-]

Would you be able to pick out an example of "good photography as art" in the first 6 years of photography's existence, given generative media has been around for about 6 years?

Does the lack of an existence proof for fine art photography in the first six years mean that photography will never be fine art? Obviously not for us living in the future.

You'll need to propose a different, more honest test.

ModernMech 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Okay but that’s exactly what the painters said about photography when it was invented. They said it was more chemistry than art because of the development process.

  Photography couldn’t qualify as an art in its own right, the explanation went, because it lacked “something beyond mere mechanism at the bottom of it.
https://daily.jstor.org/when-photography-was-not-art/

I don’t see how blanket labeling all images made with AI as slop is any different from people rejecting photographs because they were made with chemicals and lenses.

In 100 years the same article will be written about AI art, and will probably feature the phrase “clanker slop”.

Laurel1234 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Can you show me one AI image with artistic value?

iamwil 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Exactly my point. People simply weren't alive in the beginning of a medium, so they think how it is now is how it was always so. For the first 20 to 30 years of film, people disregarded it as art.

And somehow, it's a leap of logic that just because the AI image is generated that the text is also. It's as silly as asserting because someone used a camera, they hired a ghostwriter.

CuriouslyC 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

dofm 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Serious question: are you having a particularly bad day or week? Because this was really rude and you appear to have poured out a lot more irritation than was merited.

If it were not for this, as a geeky photographer I'd get into it with you about whether Ansel Adams was really an artist, whether he's any particular benchmark or high water mark for photography, and whether individual creations are any less artistic than what he did.

Laurel1234 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Sloppers get really defensive.

CuriouslyC 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Oh, I'm sorry, did I crash your anti-AI pity party to try and get you to at least be logically consistent human beings? That must be pretty threatening.

Laurel1234 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You seem significantly more aggrieved than me here.

> most people make garbage,

That's fine, that's what sets truly great art apart. Not that it terribly matters, more care and ingenuity goes into even some shit instagram thirst trap picture than every clanker slop ever output combined.

These are lifeless things. Their only value is by referencing human creation which they debase with their very existence.