| ▲ | krisoft 2 hours ago |
| I did a test a few months ago. A friend of mine wanted to develop what i understood to be a simple single page web app. But since she didn’t have any software engineering experience she asked me to help. Around that time everyone was talking about how literally anyone can develop software with LLMs i asked her if she could give it a try first, and if I could watch the attempt. I was fully expecting that writing the code will pose no problem for the AI. But i was curious if the AI will realise that my friend is a novice and needs extra help with things like: copy pasting the code into a text file and saving it with an html extension, helping her host the file online so she can share it with others, buying a domain for it, etc. I assumed they will get there eventually, but i also assumed that it will take a lot of stumbling around and misunderstandings. But i was completely wrong. They didn’t even get to that point. Because my friend didn’t have the vocabulary to ask the AI to write code. They were just going around in circles where the AI was brainstorming with her about possible features and getting thints more and more complicated. We terminated the experiment after one and a half hours and many many messages exchanged between her and the LLM. Whereas to me who knows the terminology would have probably just taken a single exchange of messages to get the result she described to me. I would have prompted with something like “Please write to me an html page which does X, Y, Z.” But since she didn’t know the right terminology she got into a vortex of feature discusion, and she didn’t find a way to tip the AI into “just do it, write it now” mode. In other words in that case the LLM would have rewarded even just a little bit of expertise, but without it there was a confusion about goals between the human and the machine. |
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| ▲ | RileyJames 42 minutes ago | parent | next [-] |
| I’d love to see this experiment executed with Claude design. Particularly with something static, I don’t think they’d fail to get a result. But without domain knowledge I think they’d misunderstand prototype with finished product. Without knowing what it’s doing, it’s hard to know what it’s not doing. |
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| ▲ | matthew-wegner 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Are you describing a "chat window" experience here? This is apples to oranges. |
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| ▲ | dmazzoni 30 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | As opposed to what? If you ask a non-programmer to install Claude Code, just installing it will be a challenge, then opening the shell and interacting with it. Things as simple as copying and pasting can present roadblocks if you've never used a shell before, and things intuitive to programmers like using up-arrow to go back to a previous prompt would never occur to someone in the field. Claude Code seems so simple and natural of a UI to programmers, it's easy to forget how much it builds on. | | |
| ▲ | wilg 21 minutes ago | parent [-] | | The terminal? No way, the normal Claude or ChatGPT desktop app. |
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| ▲ | jvanderbot an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Open any chat window and ask for a simple SPA with startup instructions. It's fine, it's fine, it works. | |
| ▲ | Synthetic7346 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yeah I wonder if they had given their friend Claude code or Codex, would it have been more likely to create what she wanted? | | |
| ▲ | davely an hour ago | parent [-] | | Perhaps! But I do think the vocabulary issue is real and I think LLMs are still sycophantic enough that they won’t really challenge someone or offer alternative ideas on how to implement something unless they explicitly ask. Interestingly at my work, Claude Code was available before Claude Desktop, so a number of non-technical PMs tried to use it in order to build… anything, with very mixed success. The “hey guys, check out the website I built with Claude: http://localhost:3000/” joke is real! In my experience, the whole “the terminal is a scary place” aspect is very real and some non-technical people can feel intimidated by. I think Claude Code in the desktop app helps alleviate that a bit (perhaps Codex, too, but man what a mess the ‘ol ChatGPT app has become). But I’m sure there are entire repos of web dev skills that someone could use to put together things with a bit of effort. | | |
| ▲ | ElectricalUnion 34 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > the terminal is a scary place Isn't the the powerful, unlimited, unopinionated blank LLM text input waiting for your instructions eerily similar to a scary terminal? WIMP and GUI paradigms are the exact the opposite: intentional dis-empowering, by design restrictions, enumeration of your few possible options. Those feel more constrained therefore safer. | | |
| ▲ | mjmahone17 9 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Terminals are scary because it feels insurmountable. What are you supposed to do? If you just type “start python program” it gives you this absurd error that doesn’t make sense. What do you mean start is not in path? The moment you interact with an LLM it gives you feedback that you’re doing things right. It feels like a gradual climb instead of a series of abrupt jumps. People really don’t like feeling like they don’t know what they’re doing, and the terminal constantly reminds you that you are making mistakes. | |
| ▲ | andsoitis 9 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > WIMP and GUI paradigms are the exact the opposite: intentional dis-empowering Are you kidding? WIMP and GUI democratized computing! |
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| ▲ | akoboldfrying 40 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Not really, for making a single-file anything ex nihilo. I suppose the chat window won't be able to run a linter or make and run tests as a typical "eager" agent might, so maybe it will make more mistakes. | | |
| ▲ | ElectricalUnion 29 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Almost all web chatbot providers have code sandboxes that they will run (limited) tooling for you. If you ask for it, it will run deterministic linters, formatters, format converters, tests for you. Older versions of Claude would for example happily try to reverse engineer entire artifacts for you, once you provide a URL. |
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| ▲ | AnotherGoodName an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
| OTOH my wife's friends got drunk and made "tinder for horse purchases". They prompted to read typical horse advertisements (we're all horse people) and create an app with mock tinder like entries to swipe right and left to buy horses. A web app was produced with lots of mock "Hi i'm Dominique and i love running through fields and having a bucking good time" type entries complete with silly horse photos. A huge amount of drunken fun even if it boiled a towns water supply and blew through half a subscription to create. I was looking at the results as a dev with 30 years experience and thinking fuck me. The little apps i made here and there before AI are being outdone by a bunch of drunk people on a whim! |