German culture is very functional, rigid, and dry, and it serves people with that kind of mindset very well. However, it clashes strongly with typical Southern cultures, so it is no surprise that the parent mentioned this. People who value the "softer" aspects of life are not going to feel at home.

There are certainly exceptions, and YMMV.

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holgerschurig a day ago | parent | next [-]

The question is... what about the german culture do you know?

Do you know the "functional" Brother Grimm's tales?

Or the "dry" humor of Dieter Hallervorden if you're a bit older? (okay, Christian Ehring from extra3 is perhaps really dry ...)

Do you know the rigid songs of, say Nena or Einstürzende Neubauten? Or is the music of BAP functional to you?

Are the books of Andreas Eschbach dry? Or the lyrics of Ingeborg Bachmann?

Maybe local customs like or the cologne "Karneval" are dry you then? These days we have CSD's all over the place. Maybe not original german culture, but perhaps the german adaption is too rigid?

Do you actually KNOW german culture? Have you been here in school, for example? My guess: you don't really know german culture, at least not so much that you found stuff in it that you enjoy. But you certainly miss your home culture. This is the culture where you were brought up, where you know the language, the norms, the taboos etc. And something else is then alien to you, not comforting. But you already adopted german directness to express this non-comforting state in harsh and ugly words :-)

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rglullis a day ago | parent [-]

It's not a matter of not knowing the language. I grew up in Brazil but studied in a German school from grades 6-12. I used to watch Deutsche Welle more than I'd watch canned US sitcoms on cable.

I can understand a joke, and I can even (most of the times) understand the intention of the joke. But it doesn't mean that I find it funny.

As for "culture", I don't think we are using it in the same way. I mean in the sense of "expected norms and behaviors".

Let me give you one example: BBQ "culture". I really like to grill in the summer time and my birthday is in June. So I put these two together and made a tradition to have a BBQ party for my birthday.

Maybe you are not aware, but Brazilian BBQ is a multiple-hour event. It is not just a matter of cooking a pile of meat and getting stuffed, it is an opportunity to get the group together, socialize, and to slowly enjoy the food throughout the afternoon. Also, people can coordinate about the side-dishes all they want, but usually the host of the party "runs" the grill.

So, to get to the anecdote: one of my first birthdays here I invited a bunch of people to my place. I told them "Don't worry about the food or drinks. I got plenty for everyone."

Anyway, it was the time of the party and people started showing up. But remember what I said, this is an day-long event. By the time people started to arrive I had most of the things already set, appetizers on the table, drinks on the cooler. Everyone there (Italians, Turks, the Greeks, the Spanish, my Polish coworker) understood their "assignment": enjoy the moment and trust the host (me) that food would be coming along...

..except this one (German) friend of my (Italian) flatmate. The dude showed up one hour after the first group of people, all stressed about "being late" (he wasn't, it's a long party, there is no set time to arrive or leave), carrying a couple of "Nackensteaks" and asking whether he could "have some space on the grill to cook his food". I told him "hey, relax, there is some food over there and more meat is coming already, I can cook these steaks you brought afterwards".

He refused, he just wanted "his" steaks. No particular reason, just because he thought that was "his" share. I let him cook his steaks, he got some of the side dishes, sat down on the table by himself and had his lunch. Only then he decided to join the rest of the people in the party.

My flatmate just looked at me and said "they really don't get it...". I shrugged, and went back to the grill.

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derriz a day ago | parent | next [-]

BBQ culture is different in different parts of the world - I experienced what you describe in Switzerland once (bring and grill your own food). Where I’m from, it’s bring your own booze but host is expected to provide all the food. Where my partner is from, you’re expected to bring either dessert or salad - but not booze or stuff for the grill. I think you’re reading too much into some fairly minor difference in etiquette. If you want to experience real culture-shock, try using a sauna in a German-speaking country…

	▲	rglullis a day ago \| parent [-]
		Oh, it's not a "culture shock" kind of thing. I actually had no issue whatsoever going to a Sauna or even going swimming on the FKK hours. Like I said, I studied in a German school so I kinda knew these things are just a natural part of German life. And it's not like I was "bothered" by him bringing his own food or wanting to cook it. It just seemed the guy was completely missing the point by being too focused on the "meal". I just want to give one example of what I meant by "cultural differences", not that this one story cemented my opinion of Germans. Somewhat like trying to explain to an Italian that the North American idea of "getting coffee" means grabbing a Starbucks and walk around - or worse, driving to get it on a drive-through.

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a2800276 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Being German who lived in other parts of the world myself, and someone who likes food and considers the typical German BBQ an abomination I can feel your pain.

But is this not more of an example of you wanting to do things the Brazillian way rather than German's unwillingness for you to integrate? At any rate, the Nackensteak guy is a total dick!

Also don't forget, a lot of those Italian, Turk, Greek, Spanish and Polish coworkers may well be Germans...

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rglullis 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

That's a pithy description of it all. If I hadn't met my (Greek) wife in 2015, I've probably would have left long ago.

And to come of think of it, I think there is another aspect that influences this: Germans are not having as many kids as the immigrants, so the overwhelming majority of the kids in the kitas and schools are from immigrant families or immigrant/native mixed parents. This means that (at this stage in life) any new friends you get to make are likely through your kids, and even there the pool is selected against Germans.

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sveme 2 days ago | parent [-]

That's a very Berlin-centric observation. Berlin is special; it's hard to extrapolate to the rest of the country.

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rglullis 2 days ago | parent [-]

Maybe, but a quick AI-assisted research says that Bremen has an even higher rate of births from non-German mothers than Berlin, and the data does not make the distinction between citizenship and immigration status.

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sveme 2 days ago | parent [-]

What do you mean with „Germans“? In my friends group, in my son‘s football club, in school, most kids have a so called migration background, but the parents are mostly second generation and mostly assimilated. So what?

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rglullis 2 days ago | parent [-]

If we split between second-generation (i.e, both parents born in Germany) as "native" and everyone else (i.e, anyone with at least one parent not born in Germany) as "immigrants", I'd guess that number would skew heavily towards "immigrants" in all major cities. I could be wrong, but I haven't found a way to reliably check the data.

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sveme 2 days ago | parent [-]

Doubtful, honestly, though from what you described with Berlin, this feels like more of a problem of Berlin being a very transient city. A lot of people never fully settling there, especially so called expats, despite living there for decades. A lot of people being part of the cosmopolity, moving from one hype city, one startup, to the other. That’s okay, but it doesn’t work for everyone.

	▲	rglullis 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		Your view of current immigrants is not that different from the Germans in the 70s who thought that the Turks and Vietnamese looking for jobs in Germany would go back to their homes after a while. Some of them did, but enough of them stayed to become a substantial part of the population. Anyway, like I said there is a good chance I am wrong about it Germany in general. But I'd argue that in Berlin that is pretty much the case, regardless of how large the "transient" people are compared to "longer-term settlers". Once people start having kids they stop hopping around, so I'd guess that the amount of "non-native" children that dominate the schools have immigrant parents who are mostly settled.