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pohl 2 hours ago

I'm not convinced—and certainly don't find it obvious—that this couldn't ultimately also be how we reason as humans.

It's clear that there's an enormous amount of leverage built into language-as-practiced that one can use to engage in a broad spectrum of reasoning, from the extremely fallible off-the-cuff conclusion to the deeply-considered and rigorous proof. How do we know this leverage is built into language-as-practiced? Because LLMs can do a broad swath of it.

But how do we know we're not doing something similar?

I don't think we can assume that we're not simply by observing that we're not digital and we don't use matrix multiplication. Why immediately dismiss the possibility that there might be a similar, but biomechanical, computation at play in our heads that plays in the same space of vectors?

tsunamifury 2 hours ago | parent [-]

humans reasoned before language but lacked the ability to store and transmit it. Later advanced humans developed abstract reasoning once lingustistic library became sufficiently description of reality. But this is not how we reason from first princples.

Language is one of our tools we developed to STORE reasoning, not create it. LLMs excel at uncompressing and interpreting that stored reasoning.

pohl 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> humans reasoned before language

That's an interesting supposition. Are you assuming language didn't exist before it was written? Language and meaning are, if you squint, pretty ancient and have roots in things like birdsong. It could be that ur-semantics predates our species as a whole.

emp17344 2 hours ago | parent [-]

It’s pretty clear that animals that don’t use a system of language are capable of reasoning. No need to over complicate things.

pohl an hour ago | parent [-]

Good observation. I’m certainly not trying to over complicate things. That just tells us, though, that the bio-mechanical computation part is there before language, which I took as a foregone conclusion, it being meatware and all.