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groundzeros2015 3 days ago

Whatever Java is doing seems a few orders of magnitude smoother and saner than C++ (and I like C++).

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germandiago 3 days ago | parent [-]

It depends on how you look at it.

C++ is very different since it is native.

Java is a VM.

This affects lots of decisions in weird ways.

But in essence both commit to backwards stability at the end.

C++ goes for performance, JVM for a more full-featured bytecode vm, etc. but still.

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pron 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

The JVM goes for performance, too, only with an emphasis on the performance of larger programs. It's designed to address some of the serious performance issues that large C++ programs tend to suffer from (I originally made the switch to Java because it was getting hard to keep the large C++ applications we were working on fast enough; Java does some optimisations that are hard for a C++ compiler).

	▲	germandiago 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		Well, yes. True that for long-running apps JVM seems to be tuned. I meant the kind of "perf-to-the-instruction" thst native can generate vs other considerations.

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groundzeros2015 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

None of that prevents Java from blowing up their language with complex features. They are somehow able to sit back and work on proposals for years and end up with what makes sense for the language.

	▲	cogman10 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		One thing the Java architects have said is they let most of the complex feature development happen outside of Java, which is pretty nice. They let the likes of Kotlin, C#, C++, Scala, Haskell, etc all explore their own little features then they figure out if it could be integrated with Java and what it'd look like. I really like that approach because it's slow, methodical, and the features typically are very well aligned with Java. None of them feel particularly out of place. Java's preview system also works pretty well to get these features refined over time.