| ▲ | AsyncBanana 3 days ago |
| China is still far behind modern lithography. It took ASML almost 2 decades to get from immersion DUV (and EUV prototypes) to commercial EUV machines. |
|
| ▲ | _ink_ 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| But isn't it easier to copy some existing approach than to create it from a green field? ASML tech is presumably highly protected, but China is also very good in spying, hacking etc. |
| |
| ▲ | seanmcdirmid an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | This stuff is really hard to copy. China basically had to put in all the cold era materials research along with getting up to speed on current tech, from scratch. They were/are always going to catch up because they have the resources to, but there are no shortcuts. | |
| ▲ | HWR_14 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yes. But it's not as simple as just having access to ASML's ip. They have exclusive rights to all the components and inputs, which are also protected and are also hard to make. It's a whole system that China needs to duplicate. |
|
|
| ▲ | Reptur 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| True but also catching up to an existing tech is a much different game than creating it from scratch. Hiring people who have the right knowledge can speed that up. |
| |
| ▲ | seanmcdirmid an hour ago | parent [-] | | The core stuff is under heavy lock and key. I’m not sure China can hire people that know the whole process, let alone the bits and pieces they can’t easily figure out on their own. The tech seems to have been locked down by a few western countries, and it’s hard to find any holes in their secrecy. | | |
| ▲ | LIMEVINCE an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm not sure how true this is but I've read in other threads that ASML employs many Chinese engineers, and also read other news that the Chinese state is paying engineers working abroad at companies like ASML alluring salaries to get them to work back home. | |
| ▲ | the_sleaze_ 24 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Espionage |
|
|
|
| ▲ | xiphias2 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Sure, and spent most of it experimenting with something nobody knew would work in production or not, and needed a lots of breakthrough ideas that are now known as the machines exist. |
|
| ▲ | sleepyguy 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| This, these news organizations have no f'n clue. China this, China that, it's all part of the 10 billion China spends on b.s to feed the Americans that they are behind or they are useless and that they don't stand a chance.... China is on the verge of collapse walking the razors edge. |
| |
| ▲ | anigbrowl 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Schrödinger's economy https://thediplomat.com/2015/03/why-do-people-keep-predictin... | | | |
| ▲ | sumanthvepa 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yes. China is behind on some of the crucial technology that gives the West its advantage, but this framing that the country is on the verge of collapse is just not true. Also recreating a know technology usually takes much less time even if you don't have access to the underlying tech. | |
| ▲ | HWR_14 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | I mean, it's possible that an economy, especially of a major nation, can be on the verge of collapse and that it can be pushing technical frontiers. It's even possible that pushing those frontiers can forestall or reverse the economic collapse. There are certainly a lot of people who think the above applies to the US. |
|
