>On holiday a guests BMW didn’t want to “start” anymore because it couldn’t phone home because of lack of phone reception. They had to contact the dealer at home and move heaven and earth to get some dealer code to allow the car to start again for a while. Why is this even allowed?

Surely there's more to this story? AFAIK last time I heard about something like this, it was because the guy's car was parked 5 stories underground, and didn't carry his car keys, because he was using his phone to unlock all the time.

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spockz 23 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

In this case it was with car keys and the valley where they are parked has no cell reception at all. Apparently they could still enter the car but not “start the engine”. They then managed to get a code from the dealer to unlock the car. I’m unsure whether it was a software bug relying on communication unnecessarily, a intended feature, or something like an alarm being triggered which triggered some fail safes.

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xp84 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> last time I heard about something like this, it was because the guy's car was parked 5 stories underground, and didn't carry his car keys, because he was using his phone to unlock all the time

I hope you aren't suggesting that set of details makes this okay. I should be able to park in a faraday cage 2 miles underground and still start it the same as I can on the surface. Including with my phone, if it's equipped with phone-as-key.

The phone-as-key shouldn't only work when online and shouldn't require the car to be online, either. And this is a problem trivially solved with proper use of cryptography.

The reason for this is that if the car gives people the ability to start a trip with a phone, it's dangerous to assume they'll always carry a keyfob as a backup. Just like I don't carry two car keys.

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gruez an hour ago | parent | next [-]

>The reason for this is that if the car gives people the ability to start a trip with a phone, it's dangerous to assume they'll always carry a keyfob as a backup.

How's this any different than say, not bringing your wallet with you, because 95% of the time apple pay works, and then getting mad at the shop/credit card company/apple when the payment terminal randomly decides to not accept apple pay? Not to mention there are plenty of other ways a phone can fail. It can fall into a toilet, you can drop it and the screen cracks, etc. By not carrying the keys, you're rolling the dice every time.

>Just like I don't carry two car keys.

That all depends on your risk appetite. I normally wouldn't carry money in my socks, but if I'm in a foreign country I very well might. Likewise if I'm going on a road trip where I might be days away from home, I very well might bring a second key, in case i accidentally lock one in the car or whatever.

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esterna an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> How's this any different than say, not bringing your wallet with you, because 95% of the time apple pay works

Apple Pay involves at least a third party (your bank) as a part of its function. This entity has to be reachable.

Unlocking my car needs me, and my car.

> when the payment terminal randomly decides to not accept apple pay?

I would be justified in being mad if, randomly, my BMW car would decide to not accept a BMW key (virtualized or otherwise).

> Not to mention there are plenty of other ways a phone can fail. It can [...]

"I will not accept this Euro bank note. You could have dropped it into the gutter on your way here, so it's strange for you to be mad at me if you don't have a backup."

	▲	gruez 2 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		The point isn't that it's fine for smartphone car keys to randomly fail, it's that there's plenty of other reasons they can fail that you're already living on the edge if all you're carrying is your phone. Therefore the "it's dangerous to assume ..." claim doesn't hold.
	▲	noja an hour ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		> Apple Pay involves at least a third party (your bank) as a part of its function. This entity has to be reachable. No it doesn't. It has to have a recent token, and if it does not it will contact your bank.

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jtbayly an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

It's very different, because you aren't moving from car to car. You're using your car with your digital key. There is no expectation of things changing. Rightly so.

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bri3d an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It doesn't; BMW use the CCC Digital Key standard for "Digital Key Plus" and there's no Internet required post provisioning. This story really reeks of misunderstanding or "needs more information" as for BMW especially, I don't see any scenario where this could have happened, regardless of physical or phone key use.

	▲	cloudfudge a few seconds ago \| parent [-]
		It's possible they were trying to do something like remote start, which (at least in my bmw) does use the godawful bmw online service. In the retelling, this might have expanded to "couldn't start the car."

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dotancohen 19 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

My Tesla works like this. No internet connection needed, just Bluetooth.

I do keep a card key in my wallet just in case.