I think people are aware that the government can physically do a lot of stuff, e.g. shoot you in the face for no reason. And vice-versa for that matter.

However there are arguments morally, and constitutionally, and logically, about what can be done.

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pennomi 14 hours ago | parent | next [-]

And all of those arguments are entirely academic, and subject to change depending on economic status, skin color, or nationality.

Law is effectively a weak gentleman’s agreement we tolerate because the alternative is violence.

(Well, law is enforced with violence too, I suppose.)

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wand3r 14 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yes, this is something more people really need to take to heart. As Americans are seeing, a lot of rules are unenforceable and really came down to norms and pressure. I have been thinking about this a lot over the last few years and it is roughly encapsulated in this tweet I saw a while back.

When I was a kid I wanted to be a police officer because I wouldn't have to follow any laws or rules. Then I got a little bit older and realized that wasn't how being a police officer actually worked in practice. Then, I got a little bit older than that, and realized that it actually does work like that.

This has always been true and there has never really been perfect justice. Ultimately, power and violence have always superseded the law. High trust societies with less corruption and a strong justice system try to limit these circumstances.

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Telaneo 13 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> When I was a kid I wanted to be a police officer because I wouldn't have to follow any laws or rules. Then I got a little bit older and realized that wasn't how being a police officer actually worked in practice. Then, I got a little bit older than that, and realized that it actually does work like that.

I'm imagining that IQ bell curve meme, just with you at different ages.

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mmooss 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> This has always been true and there has never really been perfect justice.

You raise the standard for justice to perfection. There also has never been perfect corruption and anarchy.

> Ultimately, power and violence have always superseded the law.

That's like saying night has always superceded day. Everyone recognizes that recent years have been very unusual or unique in US history. That means for the great bulk of US history, it was different. Why doesn't 99% of US history outweigh the 1% (picking numbers very loosely) in determining what is somehow inevitable to you.

In fact, law is universal among human cultures. We are naturally social and live in groups with rules. Those that violate rules are generally outcasts.

But the most fundamental and significant error is attributing the current situation to some unavoidable system instead of the actions of people, especially those that stand aside and allow these things to happen. Many of them stand aside because they are told - probably messaging ultimately from the lawbreakers - that they are powerless and should despair.

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8note 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Everyone recognizes that recent years have been very unusual or unique in US history.

i dont?

this is how the US has always been. its who americans are. the odd time was the obama years

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vkou 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The law wasn't in the state that you ascribe to it for the other 99% of its history if you were, say, African-American. Other less-extremely obvious examples also abound.

Liberal democracy with sometimes-fair application of it is the aberration.

	▲	mmooss 11 hours ago \| parent [-]
		By that reasoning any advance is an aberration and thus hopeless, but we've had liberal democracy for a long time. Again, certainly not perfect.

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int_19h 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Law is effectively a weak gentleman’s agreement we tolerate

Not all of us do. To be honest, the older I am, the less sense many laws make to me, and the more I'm willing to help people break them.

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8note 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

well, the status quo is also violence, just directed at some people and not others

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sambull 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Well, you need to be eating a burrito or something