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malcolmgreaves 14 hours ago

I’m quite unfamiliar with this notion. What law says it’s illegal to lie when you’re not under oath during a court proceeding?

sfRattan 14 hours ago | parent | next [-]

18 U.S. Code § 1001 [1]

[1]: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001

hinata08 10 hours ago | parent [-]

does this apply to defendant ?

the most authoritarian places in the world wouldn't charge defendants for "lying"

sfRattan 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

In America, the defendant generally has the right not to testify against himself by remaining silent, both in court and when questioned by agents of the state out of court. Not a right to lie. This is why criminal defense attorneys advise everyone to shut up, shut up, SHUT UP without a lawyer present. Police can and will attempt to catch you in a provable lie.

> the most authoritarian places in the world wouldn't charge defendants for "lying"

What on Earth is this second part of your comment supposed to mean?

Do you expect to be able to lie to the government in an authoritarian country? And not be arrested if they catch you in the lie there? And not be charged or worse if they consider the lie serious?

hinata08 8 hours ago | parent [-]

Alright. Most places would investigate crimes and charge you for them before they look at your defense itself, so I had several worries about that

One of which is self indications (even of things that cops didn't know about or couldn't prove) that would allow them to just question anyone into admitting even a parking offense, but I guess you can shut up indeed

I was worried that they could use any crime in a broad area and just force everyone to say with who they were and what they were doing, but you can also shut up

I was also worried than on investigations with no real crime involved, they could just go play jeopardy and ask you what you were doing minute by minute, and get you to talk until something gets inaccurate (while they have cctv but you have no vcr in your brain). But again, you can shut up.

When I'll be in America, I'll remember not to talk to cops.

Not even to 911 as emergency calls are error prone : You said someone was attacked by a suv and knife when it was a pickup truck and machete, you go to jail

15155 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Not even to 911 as emergency calls are error prone : You said someone was attacked by a suv and knife when it was a pickup truck and machete, you go to jail

Very few states have anything resembling this specific federal statute, and one doesn't typically call 911 to obtain service from federal law enforcement agencies. And in the case of a 911 call specifically, "heat of the moment" and "good faith" do a lot of work.

Unless you obviously intended to mislead an emergency services response, you will not be criminally implicated from good faith statements made during a 911 call regarding some incident you merely observed as a bystander.

sfRattan 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> I was worried that they could use any crime in a broad area and just force everyone to say with who they were and what they were doing

In authoritarian countries, that absolutely happens. In America and the West, police are generally expected to have reasonable suspicion of anyone they detain to interrogate, and the length of detention is also limited if no evidence validating suspicion is forthcoming. They could not simply arrest everyone in the proximity of a crime, and geofence warrants are controversial exactly because that was the standard in the analog world.

> I was also worried than on investigations with no real crime involved, they could just go play jeopardy and ask you what you were doing minute by minute, and get you to talk until something gets inaccurate

Again, they must have reasonable suspicion to even detain you. You are reasoning about law codes as if they were literalist computer code for a compiler. The law, at least common law in America, is written by and for humans who are expected to exercise good faith as a part of enforcing and interpreting the law.

Do know your right to remain silent, and ask for a translator and consular assistance if detained or arrested. Police departments will provide these things because attorneys in court will question the reliability and admissibility of any testimony in the absence of their provision.

Don't worry too much about police if you're in America to visit. They're ordinary people who mostly want to catch criminals who are hurting their community. Bad apples are rare, and bad apples who harass someone on a tourist visa are rarer still.

jibal 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

From the cited statute:

> Subsection (a) does not apply to a party to a judicial proceeding, or that party’s counsel, for statements, representations, writings or documents submitted by such party or counsel to a judge or magistrate in that proceeding.

object-a 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Famously, 18 USC 1001

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001

14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
c22 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Here's one: https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-37-08/

mannanj 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

you had answers here. I'm trying to understand why our leaders can get away with lying so much and it being obviously in the public record, with videos on YouTube etc, and there being no recourse or accountability?

Is it true that the law is only selectively applied to some people?

8note 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

if you follow the links theres a lot of carve outs for the government to be allowed to lie

Exoristos 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

"Our leaders" also are sometimes persecuted for lying to a federal officer; the past few years there have been more than one high-profile case.

mannanj 29 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yes and did you see how Biden issued dozens of pardons before he left office absolving several leaders of their lies and whatever was actually persecuted to the "crime" level?

Seems if crimes are only crimes for normal people, theres rarely actual application of law for everyone. It instead shows itself to the governed as a system of control for them for the benefit of the leadership (since their friends absolve them of crimes, and also participate in the systematic neutering of any other forms of justice opposing their friends privileged behaviors).

Not saying this as a political thing to target one side like Biden/right and say Trump/left is clean. I'm saying I notice this in all levels both left and right.