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prmoustache 3 hours ago

What GrapheneOS is missing is a complete backup and restore solution so that people can preventively wipe their smartphone before crossing the border. It would be nice to have the possibility to backup/restore every app and their data from an ssh/sftp server the way google/apple users do with google cloud / icloud. I'd rather wipe my smartphone, only add a couple of direct contacts, a copy of my passport and the pdf of my plane tickets, take the plane and cross the border with a smartphone with very little but real personal data they already know and be able to provide my PIN/password to law enforcement if they ask for it, abiding with law if such a law exist (which is the case in my home country), than using a duress and risk prosecution.

Sure that doesn't protect your data from any other attack vector but it allows you to travel with less risk of getting detained by law enforcement of a country you are visiting. You get asked your password, you can give it, and they see a phone that is used like a dumbphone. If you get questioned for that a simple "my phone died yesterday, a friend just gave me his old pixel". If you need more stuff/information during your travel you would basically only need to remember the passphrase to access a password manager or a remote ssh server but you can restore only the stuff you need when travelling and and wipe again at any moment.

Having said that maybe it is better to set this up some way but not have it builtin so that law enforcement doesn't expect that any grapheneos user would have his data on an sftp server somewhere by default. Otherwise we are back to point 0 where they would ask to connect to it and restore to a phone they own. Oh and have a dummy google account you only used to purchase a couple of silly stuff on amazon, aliexpress and shein and random subscription of various "non risky subjects" on youtube. The gmail address would quickly be filled with enough spam to look genuine.

I am travelling abroad in 3 weeks for a month and I am seriously considering wiping up my grapheneOS phone before flying. I am wary that I could be targeted at a border just for having a google pixel with grapheneOS. Or maybe I should just leave my main phone at home and only travel with a new empty 150€ phone with only my main family emergency contacts. I don't remember ever being asked to show my smartphone at a border but you never know when it will happen. Thanksfully until you reboot it there is nothing that shows from the lockscreen that it is not running the regular google pixel android.

microtonal 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

A replacement for SeedVault is planned:

https://grapheneos.org/features#encrypted-backups

https://github.com/GrapheneOS/os-issue-tracker/issues/4687#i...

Voklen 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> the project has been taken over by another group of people not sharing our goals or approach

> Seedvault which was originally written for use in GrapheneOS by a GrapheneOS user is a consequence of the 2018 takeover attempt on the project, which the people currently in defacto control of Seedvault were heavily involved in.

Seedvault is currently maintained by the CalyxOS team but I've never heard about this stuff. Does anybody know what happened?

flexagoon 2 hours ago | parent [-]

There has been a lot of conflict between Calyx and GrapheneOS a while ago.

prmoustache 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Neat, I didn't realize it was still included. I thought it had been abandonned.

So basically one needs a webdav server somewhere or an usb flash drive.

Helmut10001 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I use local seedvault backup and then sync via round sync daily trigger to my Nextcloud WebDav Server (native seedvault was not able to use this, for some reason).

DeluluDon 4 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Remind us what happened when you do cross.

cromka 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think more useful would be to be able to boot into another data partition with a different password, which, in turn, would hide the other "daily" partition. I believe LUKS is capable of that. The storage dump looks like a random set of data and only a valid password can find and decrypt a matching hidden partition.

Ideally this should also work on lock screen, e.g. if you type in a non-standard PIN, it would boot from the "dummy" partition in the background, with a slight delay perhaps.

This way you don't have backup anything (I mean you should, but for normal purposes) and have a plausible deniability whenever you get randomly inspected, not just at border crossings that you anticipate.

hahn-kev 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Honestly, I feel like I'd be more suspicious of someone who had little to nothing installed on their phone.

prmoustache 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

A lot of people are still using their smartphone pretty much as a dumbphone with a web browser.

skitsofrandom 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Yeah but if you're a normal guy strolling through every time with a phone that has nothing- no pictures, no signed in email, no history of messages, 4 contacts. That's abnormal, no way of spinning it as "but I just don't use my phone much" will make that seem normal. The average person has their phone glued to their body 24/7 now. Implying that you don't is abnormal.

hamper653 2 hours ago | parent [-]

"I only ever cross borders with a blank phone because I don’t want you invading my privacy" is a perfectly valid answer. You can also add that it is your employer’s policy and/or your government official recommendation.

Terr_ an hour ago | parent | next [-]

You can also point out that other countries want to search phones too.

"I have to do this because of country X, you know that they're like, amirite?"

inigyou 40 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

It's one that will get you denied entry, or detained indefinitely.

microtonal 32 minutes ago | parent [-]

I have worked for employers that required taking a burner phone to certain countries without any accounts logged in, etc. (so mostly for calls, maps, and web browsing) and nobody has ever been detained or denied entry. Some countries know that this is just standard procedure when they are visited for business trips. Probably different for the US though.

(Not legal advise of course, just observation. Always check with the legal department of your employer, etc.)

progbits 25 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Even more of a reason for good and easy backup and restore.

Before travel back up the real contents and restore a dummy travel backup with random games, stock photos etc. Then restore back to real contents.

XorNot 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sure but there'd be nothing there.

If the regime is going to just start taking people then nothing will stop that, but the goal is to stop the usefulness of this sort of thing as an intimidation measure - or at least drag it to the forefront and overthrow the regime.

izacus 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The easiest way to avoid suspicion is to have a phone filled with cat and family pictures, dumb apps and games.

You don't avoid scrutiny by being wierd and hiding things, but by hiding in plain sight by being ultra boring.

bloak 4 minutes ago | parent [-]

On the other hand, if everything about you is boring, that in itself may begin to seem suspicious. "I borrowed this old phone from my stepson because my own phone got run over by a steamroller at a vintage vehicle show" is the sort of thing an actual spy or criminal would never say.

ButlerianJihad 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

prmoustache 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> So you plan to (1) actively/proactively conceal your data/evidence

I am not concealing data/evidence as it doesn't exists. I don't know of any law in any country that force you to hand out the key of your home to a remote state so that they can enter your country and do a search.

> and then (3) constantly restore from cloud backups?

Why constantly? Only and only if I need to access specific data (that may be available remotely without restore anyway). Full restore only when going back in my own country.

Hikikomori 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's been normal operating procedure for many employees that travel to the US. You think they're all criminals?

cyberax 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Border officials don't have the right to search all of your data.

You are also not under any obligation to have it on your phone at all times.

ButlerianJihad 3 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

prmoustache 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Correct! Furthermore, border officials have no requirements to allow you into their country either, unless you’re a citizen there,

I'd rather have them tell me to turn back and go home than being jailed there only because I don't want them to fap at the picture of my daughters.

izacus 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Unfortunately, it'll most likely go something like this: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jul/23/cop-city-pro...

prmoustache 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Being prosecuted because your smartphone has been setup yesterday is not the same as being prosecuted because you gave a password that wipe your phone in front of law enforcement.

In the past I have had my smartphone die a couple of days before travelling and quickly buying a smartphone so I could have a mobile line in case of emergency while travelling. This is not a totally uncommon case to have a smartphone with very little data. A lot of people never setup any cloud backup and lose all their data every so many years.

microtonal 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah, the lesson is: do not travel to countries that treat people such in a shitty way. This has always been true. Unfortunately, for many foreigners this also applies to the US nowadays.

I guess that you are out of luck if you are a US citizen and need to return to your own country.

prmoustache 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Do the requirement to put your social account public when applying for a US Visa still applies? I guess the USA do not have that many non US visitors these days because I don't know a lot of women who would agree to that. Almost all my female friends have been experiencing stalking from jealous ex, former colleagues/clients/patients so putting their social media account public would be a complete no-go for them.

How is the tourism industry going?