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Ruff v0.16.0 – Significant new updates – 413 default rules up from 59(astral.sh)
77 points by vismit2000 2 hours ago | 30 comments
maratc 25 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

The amount of fascination that people have with these "grammar nazi" bots -- some of them implementing completely arbitrary "rules" and some of them disagreeing with others on what "good" Python code should look like -- doesn't stop to amaze me.

Here's "bad" code:

     important_numbers = {
        'x': 3,
        'y': 42, # Answer to the Ultimate Question!
        'z': 2
    }
Here's what "good" code should look like:

    important_numbers = {"x": 3, "y": 42, "z": 2}  # Answer to the Ultimate Question!
Which completely misses the writer's intent. But did you notice that there are two spaces before the pound now? Also, the quotes are now double because apparently it's somehow more kosher! So much improvement!

The actual problems in the code I work with are not the spaces at the end of line or imports in non-alphabetic order, it's the 10-line list comprehensions that are so long that they're impossible for me to parse. None of these tools catch that. My place used pylint, flake8, black, ruff -- with hundreds of commits on every change. All that energy could be better spent elsewhere.

Majestic121 15 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

The point of the "grammar nazi" bots is to focus on the actual problems: if a bot is deciding about linting, you don't have to waste brain power to discuss it in PRs.

It is what it is, everyone gets the same, shut up and work on what matters.

I'm surprised you consider it a lot of energy spent, I tend not to spend any on this, it just runs automatically on my code and I drop out of pretty much every discussions about linting as it's good enough with automated tools.

I also used to work in places where there was no such tools, and there I had to actually spend time discussing and thinking about linting.

maratc 10 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

In my previous place, discussions on coding style were forbidden in PRs. It worked just fine.

Edit: one could also use single or double quotes in strings, and it didn't anger the grammar nazi bots as there were none.

insanitybit 7 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

I've never had discussions about code formatting in PRs, this seems like a made up problem or something that predates my career.

microtonal 3 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

These used to happen all the time. In one (otherwise great) programming course in university you would even get points subtracted if you did not follow the lecturer's preferred style.

(I think that in their case it was partially because uniformity made correcting faster.)

pdpi 4 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

It's not by accident that tabs vs spaces is one of the stereotypical great debates in programming.

jbvlkt 17 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Those tools actually save team energy. Without them any programmer has different opinion on formating, code quality, what is readable etc. You can discuss it endlesly or you can just use ruff.

maratc 11 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

We can replace the endless and useless discussion on how to format code with an endless and useless discussion on what linting tool to use.

Another option would be to leave both topics alone and go on with our lives, improving the product, fixing bugs, implementing new features, and generally giving customers a better product and shareholders more value, while respectfully agreeing to disagree on the issues of style.

LaGrange 11 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Gods forbid I talk to people I work with, learn their preferences, and figure out the way we can accommodate each other. Sounds like such a waste of energy. It’s so much better if we all acquiesce to the preferences of some people neither of works with!

gempir 28 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wish Go had something like Ruff! A lot of languages are getting amazing tool but Go has a very fragmented ecosystem with a lot of tools but none of them feel as high quality has the likes of Ruff, Oxc, Biome or even PHP's Mago

gopherino 4 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

It does and it is even better. It is called the Go Analysis Framework (https://pkg.go.dev/golang.org/x/tools/go/analysis).

It is fairly new so not well known but it is what powers go fix and go vet under the hood. And I believe the Go team is currently working on making it possible for module authors to easily describe their own custom analysis passes that would run automatically when running go fix.

It is extremely easy to define your own analysis.Analyzer struct that describes your own static analysis pass. You get access to all sorts of useful information such as the AST, types, even SSA info and you can even compose the information between analyzers. Then you can easily compile it into a binary and run it by passing that binary to go fix with a command line flag. The go toolchain itself handles all the complex caching logic so that your analyzers run fast.

Since it is made by the go team itself and part of the toolchain it should slowly become the unified standard you are looking for. So hopefully golangci-lint and others should eventually all unify under this framework.

You can easily give it a go by telling some AI agent to write some Go Analysis analyzers and telling them to drive them with go fix. My Go projects tend to accumulate a bunch of these to enforce all sorts of rules deterministically and automatically instead of some imprecise markdown file.

alentred 8 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Oh wow, not so long ago the sentiment was exactly opposite. Python community was struggling with tools and everyone wished to have `gofmt` for Python.

Granted, this is a linter, not a formatter, but my larger point is I am glad that Python ecosystem evolved like it did recently.

gempir 3 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah, that's how much Astral changed python. UV and Ruff are amazing tools.

Go can get there, but like I said, I think everyone is building some partial tools that solve some problems, but there is not that one player building that one great tool.

jdrek1 7 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Ruff is actually a formatter too

bargainbin 12 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I’m not entirely sure what you mean by a fragmented ecosystem? Go has first-party formatting and linting and the language is deliberately restricted to ensure it is written in a certain way, even when written by complete novices.

Compare that to Python or TypeScript which are Wild West languages without opinionated first-party tooling, and it’s clear why Ruff/Biome feel great.

You just wouldn’t get that same high with Go.

gempir 4 minutes ago | parent [-]

Go has a good start for that, but It's not enough for me.

Gofmt is a great idea but it isn't strict enough for my taste. Go does not have any first party static analyzers, closest is Staticcheck which is even sponsored by Google themselves

brainzap 13 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

feel free to build it

gempir 7 minutes ago | parent [-]

I have actually tried. But I'm not very knowledgable in the area, so it's more LLM slop than my good ideas. And I'm not sure I have the energy and passion to maintain it long term.

https://github.com/gempir/strider

It's definitely possible, if Google would put like one or two smart minds on the problem full time they could easily solve this problem and make the ecosystem so much stronger. But I'm guessing they already have something like this in-house and no interest in open sourcing it.

aki237 11 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

What? I feel go has one of the best language tooling out there without requiring a bully ide to do stuff. golangci-lint is quite comprehensive. What do you miss otherwise?

(Honestly go's distributing itself has covered a lot of it)

gempir 6 minutes ago | parent [-]

golangci-lint is good, but you have to glue together a bunch of linters, and it adds up. You can easily get runtimes of several minutes, there are caches etc but the main problem is that golangci-lint doesn't own the lints, so it will never be as fast as something like Ruff.

woadwarrior01 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Great to see ruff, ty and uv being actively developed, even after Astral was acquired by OpenAI.

kstenerud 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is great news! With the advent of agentic coding, strong linting is more important than ever. What I'd really like to see is forbidigo for more languages.

alentred an hour ago | parent [-]

100% agree, I am upgrading my projects now. And yet, I have mixed feelings about this. I like to think that when I (was) writing code myself, I applied a great deal of intuition to decide when to skip or ignore some rule. On the hand, I also saw projects were developers where using pylint with most rules enabled and I have to say the code was not better - on the contrary it had plenty of hacks to make pylint happy at the cost of illegible code.

Not unlike that experience, I also saw coding agents spend lots of tokens trying to fix a benign issue, as well as doing the opposite - like disabling the tests !!! when they don't pass. :facepalm:

I grew to trust AI results in terms of overall correctness, but I still have hard time trusting their *judgement* on the *code quality*.

hyeongjun an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Good news. enabling 413 rules by default means most projects get useful linting without touching the config at all!

embedding-shape an hour ago | parent [-]

Maybe it's just me, but getting overrun with "413 x potential warnings" hardly sounds useful :) Great for greenfield, less so for existing projects. Although nowadays, fire up your agent with "/goal work through and address all lint warnings by fixing the code according to XYZ" and leave it alone for a couple of hours and I guess it's no longer an issue...

Don't get me wrong, the new level of details coming from Ruff is much appreciated and a good thing :)

vanyaland an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

ran 0.16 on a file with no config, it flags unsorted imports and `except Exception` by default now

bbor an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

  Ruff v0.16 has a small number of breaking changes
Why. Why must my poor semver be hurt so!

I sorta kinda get why `ty` is pre v1.0.0 -- it's a typechecker that doesn't check a huge number of types. But what are we waiting for with `ruff`? Surely it's eaten whatever the old options were (black? maybe a few takes on py+lint?) by now many times over, and is even more dominant than `uv`.

I run this program hundreds of times a day so I'm generally excited for new features, but I guess the OAI acquisition has made me ornery when it comes to these folks. Apologies to kindly nerds who made this release happen, and congrats <3

microtonal a few seconds ago | parent | next [-]

It is fully according to their versioning policy:

https://docs.astral.sh/ruff/versioning/

But also compliant with semver:

Major version zero (0.y.z) is for initial development. Anything MAY change at any time. The public API SHOULD NOT be considered stable.

https://semver.org/

colinmarc 26 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

It's conventional for semver to allow breaking changes for 0.x minor releases (but not for patch releases).

jakobnissen 2 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yes but the question is why Ruff has not released v1 yet. They’re clearly used in production and the entire purpose of v0.x is to signal a project is early in development and is expected to have coarse edges.