I'm all for open models, but people seem to misunderstand what they are. They aren't the same thing as open source code!

> open weights, open code and open data

Even if you have all these things you still can't replicate a model because of randomness.

You can backdoor a model with less than 1000 examples and it is impossible to detect.

2sk21 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah - we also don't know if the models from OpenAI and anthropic are back-doored either.

chrsw 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You don't want to replicate the exact model, you want to build a system of similar capabilities.

	▲	nl 12 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Great, but that seems a different concern to the auditability of a model. You can take the code for Kimi K3 now, take the training framework from Prime and the data from Olmo, spend some money on RL environments and some more money (!) on GPU training and end up with a system of similar capabilities. But that's completely different to being able to audit Kimi K3. Even if you had the exact code, data and training environments it is impossible to verify that the model you have came from that.

Deterministic seed

	▲	nl 7 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Deterministic seeds barely work on a single machine, small scale training run. They just don't work at all on a many month long, 100K+ GPU cluster training run.