There's a difference between state sponsored and private dumping.

Give me a break.

Yeah, in this case it's the USA side that's on the losing end. Just because the US government wants small government and no intervention (expect when it comes to the donor class, or their voting base, or their own financial interests) doesn't make it a universal truth.

We're happy to prop up companies that should have failed after they get big an dominant, but having an industrial policy to invest in a field as a whole is somehow a big problem.

You see this crying and threatening to take their toys and go home on every issue as soon as someone else is in the lead. Just look at TVs and solar panels; China invested in growing that sector since they saw it was important for the future; the USA does their best to deny climate change and demonize anything not running on fossil fuel. And now that nobody wants to buy American's overpriced and uncompetitive cars, it's the fault of other companies for planning ahead. But the same politicians complaining about it are very happy to set up their own protectionist tariffs and eventually bail out the laggards, again; all while touting the "free market"

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chermi 16 hours ago | parent [-]

weird, I'm pretty sure there was some american that made electric cars a thing. I'm not a fan of state sponsorship or bailouts. but if you're trying to equivocate, it's just not really true. also anti-tarriff. I guess I don't know who you're arguing with.

edit-- and re industrial policy, I'm ok with demand side stuff like government contracts in the early chip days. Less so but kind of ok with some supply stuff like EV credit, but of course in that case would've preferred the politically impossible carbon tax.

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_aavaa_ 15 hours ago | parent [-]

There was, and to a large degree Tesla had to do a lot by themselves since the US government picks winners and saves losers rather. The Chinese government prioritized EV and battery productions through onshoring, industrial policy, and blanket incentives (bypassing license plate lottery for EVs), rather than favoring a specific company.

Why does the US have 1 successful EV company while China has a dozen? Because on government cares about it and the other doesn’t. And now that they’re losing a race they couldn’t be bother to compete it they complain.

Same complaining about AI, now that the two chosen champions are facing actual competition, there’s complaints that it’s unfair. we were supposed to win, it’s unfair that they’re beating us at our own crooked game.

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chermi 13 hours ago | parent [-]

How did they pick winners and losers early days of Tesla? It demand side subsidy. No one else could meet it. It worked.

	▲	_aavaa_ 12 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Tesla had to build the charging infrastructure (and other fragmented companies followed), they had to educate customers, they had to fight dealership requirements, they had to build up and secure the supply chain, etc. etc. The government then comes in and gives them subsidies after they’ve made it though all those filters. The Chinese government prioritized critical minerals and made sure there was domestic mining and processing. Then they mandated that regional electricity companies install EV chargers. Then they provided consumer incentives to buy an EV (bypass license plate lotteries). Then they didn’t play favorites; so much so that when the domestic manufacturers were crap they allowed Tesla to come in and set up production. That raised the bar on suppliers and spurred actual competition from the local brands. They build the conditions for actual competition to occur and then are letting the companies win or fail on their own merits, someone will be bictorious and they’ll be lean and mean. A true capitalist free market compared to the sweet protectionist deals the Big Three get. Would BYD be allowed to build a car in the USA? Even a joint venture? Of course not, Washington is mulling not allowing Chinese cars to even be driven across the boarder for those silly Mexicans and Canadians who want to buy one.