| ▲ | Heavy TV watching associated with smaller brain structures, study finds(dornsife.usc.edu) |
| 105 points by mashally 19 hours ago | 63 comments |
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| ▲ | Lerc 19 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| I guess that means we are lucky that TVs weigh so much less now. |
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| ▲ | tessellated 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | How even more lucky we are that social media and short form videos are floating in the cloud - lest they be crushing our poor little brain structures. |
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| ▲ | haunter 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Interestingly there is no mention of semantics or what does actually "TV watching" mean. I have friends who self admittedly don't "watch TV" but they watch every single hyped up Netflix series available. Are they watching TV? By this study they probably not. Are they watching TV? I'd say most likely yes, they also use the device called TV to watch Netflix |
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| ▲ | al_borland 18 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Netflix is TV for the modern era, I don’t know who they think they’re kidding. It’s like the slogan, “it’s not TV. It’s HBO.” I haven’t had home television service for nearly 20 years, but I watch my TV constantly. It’s the same thing with a different delivery mechanism. | | |
| ▲ | Fnoord an hour ago | parent [-] | | Aye, though supposedly without the ads. But with filler episodes. You wanted to waste less time, instead you get tricked. Then there's the cancelled after S1 thing which is a self-fulfilling prophecy. |
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| ▲ | nabbed 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >Interestingly there is no mention of semantics or what does actually "TV watching" mean. Also, is one watching "The Real Housewives of <place name>" on Bravo or an author interview on CSPAN. | |
| ▲ | deepsun 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Maybe no, as they don't watch ads that are so pervasive in classic TV? Just kidding. | |
| ▲ | GeoAtreides 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >Participants were asked how frequently, on a scale ranging from “never/seldom” to “very often,” they watched television during their leisure time and how much of their workday they spent sitting. | |
| ▲ | joshspankit 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I’d even say that YouTube autoplay is “watching TV” |
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| ▲ | laxmena 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| One big concern for me in this article is, the MRI scans were not taken during the start of the study. But, I couldnt eliminate this because the pattern (of reduced white matter in brain) seem to hold true across the pool of 1700 people. Most curious part of in this article is the active vs passive sitting distinction. Occupational sitting (or performing intellectual activity while sitting) correlated with better brain scans and white matter. This makes sense, if I view it as consumption vs processing thing. TV is pure consumption, Intellectual work requires output and creation. If this thesis holds, the rise of AI tools is a bit concerning for knowledge workers. We are shifting from active creation (writing code, writing articles, designing, etc) to passive consumption and curation (reviewing AI generated content). Will be interested to learn more on how this study unfolds further. |
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| ▲ | Aurornis 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Direct study link: https://alz-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/alz... Observational study with an MRI at the end and user-reported activity histories. The results indicate a correlation, not necessarily causation. The study authors don't pretend to imply causation and are straight with these facts. You can't randomize humans to either do a lot of TV watching for years or stay away from TV for years. So you can you safely assume any study making these correlations is not randomized. It does not mean it should be discarded. There are a lot of other studies looking at how cortical volume can be preserved through aging with other interventions, however. There are a lot of before/after studies showing aerobic exercise can reduce the brain volume loss associated with aging - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41491407/ So despite this being a correlation study, the result is not surprising. Sedentary activity is correlated with slightly faster degradation of multiple brain measures. What is interesting in this study is that sedentary work that was intellectually challenging appeared to be somewhat protective. This is also consistent with past studies with before/after measurements around interventions like really intensive skill learning or even meditation. |
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| ▲ | nabbed 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | >The results indicate a correlation, not necessarily causation Just to drive that home, "Study participants also did not undergo a baseline MRI", which of course could mean that they already had some of these brain changes, which may have driven more TV watching. >Sedentary activity is correlated with slightly faster degradation of multiple brain measures. It seems to matter what you do while you're being sedentary, at least according to this study. From the article: "Strikingly, the sedentary element of TV watching didn’t appear to be the main driver for these changes." | | |
| ▲ | amarant 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | Seems that the direction of causation is still an open question. Is TV watching causing smaller brains, or is it the other way around? Intuitively both seem plausible. More research needed! |
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| ▲ | m4nu3l 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| When I find articles like these, I remember I haven't watched TV for almost 12 years, except when at someone else's home. By this, I mean I never turned on the TV to see what's on the television.
I used the TV as a monitor to play games or watch movies from streaming services at times. Given that I moved to the UK after I stopped watching TV, I barely know which channels even exist on the TV. I do watch a lot of stuff on YouTube. But it's things I chose to watch because I find them interesting, and I don't find most of the stuff on TV interesting enough. And the interesting parts, usually, you can find them on streaming services and only watch those whenever you want to watch them. Even scrolling brain rot on Instagram seems less of a waste of time. At least the algorithm knows the type of brain rot I like. I wonder how many people still watch TV today. |
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| ▲ | theplumber 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I guess it’s just brain rot and it could apply to any kins of compulsive consumption of junk(I.e social media, Netflix, TV etc) |
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| ▲ | jschveibinz 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Geez, growing up in the 60's and 70's I watched a lot of TV: Little Rascals, Three Stooges, Bugs Bunny--the good stuff. I guess without that time spent watching my brain now would be the size of a large watermelon. |
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| ▲ | nabbed 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I watch (or listen to) a lot of youtube on my iPad (and sometimes on my TV, but not too often). I wonder if youtube watching is also correlated with the mentioned brain changes. |
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| ▲ | epgui 18 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Obviously? Why do you think it would be any different? | | |
| ▲ | nabbed 18 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Not sure myself. There's more variety of content on youtube, whereas I think TV sometimes caters to lowest common denominator (although that's less the case in the era of streaming: TV is much higher quality than it was when this study started in 1987). On youtube, you could watch lots of silly dancing videos, car crashes, etc., possibly rotting your brain. Or you could watch history lectures, book reviews, documentaries, etc. | |
| ▲ | mejari 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The type of content, the length of content, the method of ingesting the content, the different motivations/precursors to TV watching vs online watching (since the study doesn't determine causation only correlation) lots of things. Science doesn't work by looking at things and saying what's "obvious" or "common sense", because what's supposedly obvious or common sense is often actually false. |
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| ▲ | nephihaha 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | YouTube algorithms have a tendency to try and lead you down rabbit holes and watch AI generated content. I notice YouTube constantly trying to bias me in one direction or another. A lot of the political content on there is nowhere near as intelligent as it pretends to be. If it notices you are interested in something, it will show you a glut of content on that particularly subject. Some of the videos are just churning out similar content. If you click on a Monty Python video, Python takes over your suggestions. Nothing against Python, I just want to watch a variety of things. |
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| ▲ | danubis 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Sitting while passively watching something that captivate your brain leaving no room for thoughts seems like the perfect combo for brain rot |
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| ▲ | tqi 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Would they have published this study if the correlation was inverted, or would that have been rejected as spurrious bc it goes against our priors? |
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| ▲ | WalterBright 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Lack of exercise results in smaller muscles, too. |
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| ▲ | holografix 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Maybe smaller brain structures watch more tv? |
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| ▲ | effnorwood 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Heavy study reading associated with heavy TV watching a landmark study finds |
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| ▲ | throwaway27727 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Correlation or causation? The article doesn't specify whether the subjects' brain sizes were measured prior to the study. |
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| ▲ | dozerly 19 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I understand the difference, but in this case it’s not a good look for TV viewing regardless | | |
| ▲ | tptacek 19 hours ago | parent [-] | | What does that even mean? If people with cognitive deficits have a powerful idiosyncratic preference for pineapple juice, that's not a bad look for pineapple juice. | | |
| ▲ | andor 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | In a way, that's true. Drinking a lot of juice, or soft drinks, is not ideal, and when I see an overweight person drinking straight from a large juice bottle, that reaffirms my belief. It would be socially unacceptable to judge this behavior as being caused by cognitive deficits, but you could argue that such people are acting against their own interests (which is a very human thing to do, we're not machines). The case of watching a lot of TV is a bit different though because it's about attention. Time is limited and it makes a difference whether I do something intellectually stimulating or not. If I spend 8 hours per day creating things, writing software, learning languages, etc., that is going to develop my brain in a different way than 8 hours of watching TV does. Now to the point about the bad look: even if the study could not prove a causal relationship, why would you even risk it? There is little to gain from watching lots of TV and you'll end up healthier and happier by prioritizing other things. | |
| ▲ | dredmorbius 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Last I checked, pineapple juice isn't a highly-utilised behavioural manipulation channel. The other mechanism is. Even were the relationship not causal, it is at the very least likely exploitable. | | |
| ▲ | tptacek 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | Pineapple juice is exploitable as well! Sweetened beneverages are highly caloric and hyperpalatable and preferentially consumed by lower-SES customers. This is an actual criticism people have of our food supply! The point isn't that they're not exploitable, it's that you have to show that they are, otherwise we're not talking about a study anymore, and instead simply telling each other just-so stories. | | |
| ▲ | dredmorbius 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | Hyperpalatability and propaganda are at best distantly related. Though a fair effort. |
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| ▲ | jldugger 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The linked paper suggests brain sizes were only measured once at visit 5. |
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| ▲ | tripleee 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Use it or lose it |
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| ▲ | yugioh3 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Poor study design for such sweeping claims. Correlation is not causation. Plethora of reasons people who were later measured with small brain sizes may have been heavy TV watchers earlier in life. Perhaps people who already have small brains watch more TV. Or perhaps exercise is important to brain size, and people who can’t exercise watch more TV. Or maybe not watching TV, and doing other things with your time, grows your brain size. |
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| ▲ | bushwart 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Bad TV, very bad. Good thing I watch my moving pictures on social media instead! |
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| ▲ | cramer4next 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'd like to see the study go farther with a specific consumed content breakdown. For example somone who watches Jimmy Kimmel vs someone who watches Dateline nightly. How much impact does the content affect the brain rot? |
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| ▲ | nephihaha 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I could have told you that years ago. LOL. The problem is that as a medium it is so passive. Radio forces you to visualise to some extent or maybe do other things. Computer games and some of the internet (even social media!) require some interaction. Reading and stage plays require heavier use of the brain too. In the case of reading, you both interpret the words and in many cases visualise things based on them. |
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| ▲ | xtiansimon 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| “[Television] is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people." —Karl Marx not talking about television. |
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| ▲ | relium 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Now I'm curious if it matters what you watch. |
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| ▲ | mashally 19 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think our brain's power lose its functionality,"thinking", when we forced to something. | |
| ▲ | dredmorbius 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Given the difficulties of random blinding, and the long-term (decades-long) duration of the research, studying that aspect (with the same post hoc brain morphology analysis) might help assess causality. There was some exclusion of other factors in the study per TFA. | | |
| ▲ | nephihaha 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | The island of Saint Helena only started getting TV relatively recently, so some studies have been done on children there to compare effects. | | |
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| ▲ | dd8601fn 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yeah... like, does watching an Attenborough documentary or two offset many hours of marvel movies? Asking for a friend. | | |
| ▲ | moscoe 18 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I doubt it. It’s about consumption vs creation. Active vs passive. | |
| ▲ | nephihaha 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I don't think these are a good comparison. The nature documentaries are primarily visual (and since it's Attenborough involve a lot of Foley work). His docs are extremely well made, but you could still use them as wallpaper as I have seen some do. Maybe the same could be said about the Marvel films. You don't have to concentrate much, but you are guessing some of what is going on. Some programmes do require some more imagination or interaction. A murder mystery, if it's any good will get you wondering whodunnit. If you are watching a better quality gameshow, you may be at least attempting to answer the questions. Or both may be wall paper. |
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| ▲ | tejtm 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | probably not as much as doing anything non sedentary | | |
| ▲ | haunter 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | >Strikingly, the sedentary element of TV watching didn’t appear to be the main driver for these changes. >Those who reported high amounts of sitting at work actually had larger frontal and occipital lobes, as well as reduced white matter hyperintensity volumes, indicating better brain health than among those who sit to watch TV. This could be due to the intellectually stimulating nature of many sit-down jobs, say the study authors. | | |
| ▲ | tejtm 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | I stand corrected and will now go RTFM edit: thats great... addressed in the first paragraph. |
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| ▲ | wartywhoa23 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Next up: Heavy AI usage. |
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| ▲ | analog8374 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| people like to put their television down, but we are still good friends |
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| ▲ | testing22321 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It’s called “the idiot box” for a reason. |
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| ▲ | BoingBoomTschak 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| It's not called an "idiot box" for nothing =) |
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| ▲ | analog8374 19 hours ago | parent [-] | | it isn't the obvious idiocy that you've got to worry about, it's the not-obvious idiocy | | |
| ▲ | BoingBoomTschak 19 hours ago | parent [-] | | Why not both? | | |
| ▲ | analog8374 19 hours ago | parent [-] | | because the not-obvious is harder to see. | | |
| ▲ | nephihaha 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | A fair point. I would argue that middle brow content is more dangerous. A lot of documentaries, news and political content will promote ideas which sound sophisticated or reasonable, but are no such thing. |
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