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sevg a day ago

Yeah the (annoyingly) excessive use of colons feels like recent Claude models to me.

Looks like author posted this themselves earlier, and even used Claude for the HN comment:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48958457

infinite_spin a day ago | parent | next [-]

I've always used a lot of semi-colons in my writing, especially in my technical writing. So I did a search on this pdf for semi colons, and there are 260 in a 264 page document. I then repeated this for the last book I read, Candide by Voltaire, and there were 507 semi colons in a 189 page book.

This seems like a witch hunt.

rwmj a day ago | parent | next [-]

I read parts of it, being first hand involved in all this, and it seems like it was written by AI to me. If you used an AI to write it or help with it, why not just admit to it?

infinite_spin a day ago | parent [-]

the argument was that use of semi-colons indicates AI usage..

what do you mean by "being first hand involved in all this"? what part did you take if you don't mind sharing, this was an incredibly interesting turn of events.

rwmj a day ago | parent [-]

You'd know that if you'd done any research at all.

Compare this to Jeff Guo (NPR) or Henry van Dyck (Veritasium) or my contact at the WSJ. They all investigated this story, interviewed key people (more people were interviewed for the Veritasium video than appeared), and fact-checked everything with subject matter experts. The NPR story took about 3 months of work and the Veritasium video took 5 months. I was interviewed in total for over 6 hours across all of them.

These are real journalists who worked on these stories and they produced novel work and new findings. I have huge respect for them, especially after being involved with it and seeing what work it took to add something new to the story. At the same time they managed to tell that story to a lay audience which is another skill in itself.

infinite_spin a day ago | parent [-]

> You'd know that if you'd done any research at all.

I'm not in the habit of researching the people who respond to me before I ask them about what their role was in something they seem proud of. I thought I was being polite by asking about it.

That's really cool that you were interviewed, which of the interviews do you think most represents your hand in this? I wouldn't mind checking it out. I also really like Veritasium's channel, that's pretty awesome.

bigDinosaur a day ago | parent [-]

In this case all it required was to follow the link to their blog on their HN profile just FYI. Although your question was reasonable either way.

jstanley a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I pasted the introduction into Pangram and it said 100% AI.

infinite_spin a day ago | parent [-]

well also I read the parent's comment wrong, they just said colons, not semi-colons

sevg a day ago | parent | prev [-]

You know I said colons right? Not semi colons :)

infinite_spin a day ago | parent [-]

ah my mistake, those are a bit uncommon in my writing, I feel like they seem pretentious. i just use the semi-colons because it's closer to the way I pause, and alternate, in my thoughts.

progbits a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In last month or two I noticed semicolons getting used where previously it would be em-dash, in both cases excessively and often incorrectly.

I assumed some of my coworkers added "replace all em-dashes with semicolons" into their CLAUDE.md as a really crappy attempt at hiding their inability to write a single sentence without assistance.

tux3 a day ago | parent [-]

Come on now, you can't also take away my semicolons. What am I supposed to do now; I barely have any punctuation left.

dag100 a day ago | parent | next [-]

Embrace the inner Cormac McCarthy in you and abandon punctuation altogether

progbits a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Not taking it away.

I hate those arguments "it has emdash therefore AI", of course humans also write that way.

But poor and excessive usage of them is a pretty strong red flag, also together with other tells.

eth0up a day ago | parent | prev [-]

"free book" "no paywall and nothing to buy."

Might this not actually be a reasonable purpose for AI? I can tolerate the quirky style and AI signatures for something honest and free.

rwmj a day ago | parent | next [-]

But prompting an AI adds nothing. Journalism is about research, interviewing the people involved, finding new facts, and then presenting that to your audience in a way they can understand. Getting an AI to write about something is just diluting the signal for future researchers.

jersmtpd a day ago | parent [-]

You can have an AI help write it while still having done research yourself, they're not mutually exclusive. I'm not claiming whether he actually did that or not.

Like, for me personally, I'm terrible at writing, so I'll gladly have some AI throw together a draft, which I then verify and edit.

eth0up a day ago | parent [-]

exactly. If I am writing a free book with solid information, well, I am not writing it, because I am not writing free books -- I don't have time. But if AI can arrange my data, thoughts, perspective, and articulate it effectively, then I will let AI write the free book. If the book contains new, or previously unarticulated data and insight, then why not? But I see the very thought is hotly contested here.

bandrami a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Why not just post the prompt you used? I have access to LLMs too.

rpdillon a day ago | parent | next [-]

You think if he gave you the "prompt" you'd be able to produce that book?

Heck, I should put money on this. Start a competition: I give folks a prompt, and tell them to write a book about a subject with AI. I'm the sole judge of quality. Winner gets $2000. Then let's examine the variance in the entries.

In short: using AI is a skill. It's silly to pretend otherwise.

eth0up 21 hours ago | parent [-]

Are you the only reasonable person on HN today? Others are framing this author as some official journalist who must be held to rigorous standards and has violated every rule of the trade, with wanton contempt. The author has failed to produce new data. The author is bad. This seems deranged and extraordinarily unfair. The front page explicitly states the book is for general readers and is non-technical. I do not see anything claiming official original research or boasting academic credentials. No ads. Free. No download registration. Just there. The result of work, tokens, time -- didn't 'just happen'.

The Gladwell-style of conceptual-synthesis is the foundation for half the popular-science books in the world, and the bedrock for the majority of general-reader material out there. And this book happens to have a truly fascinating and extremely relevant and rich theme at its core, sufficiently rich that any motivated idiot could churn out half-decent content with. Yet it gets flagged, insulted and framed as abuse of AI, a tool specifically designed as a force multiplier and tool. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, and how dare anyone generate something of value with it.

I sincerely find this all highly suspicious. The only explanation is hypersensitive AI allergy in a highly unstable immune system, or the topic itself is making some nervous and, ironically, insecure...

I could totally understand disagreement, and complaining. But a comment that simply states acceptance of the book as possibly of value, being flagged? Who not hiding something trounces on a friendly comment to flag it? It's gray already, but that's not dead enough? Kill it til it's dead!? I say this because on a completely different post, I mentioned Jia Tan and several of the very concepts highlighted in this book, and I was flagged for it. I have said some stupid shit around here and not been flagged. But this subject really seems to bring out seriously inspired opponents. One would think, gee wiz, security, potentially many lives or billions of dollars or FOSS at stake -- there's no such thing as too much security, by all means, obsess on it, stay focused and talk about it, there are real world dangers here. But no.

Something seems fishy.

Anyway, glad someone had the courage to question the outrage. And I will promptly warn my author friends of the coming witch-hunt and to be very quiet about the tools they're using.

rpdillon 12 hours ago | parent [-]

The HN crowd is generally skeptical, but "shallow dismissals", which are specifically called out in the guidelines, are still extremely common. These dismissals are not as clever as they tend to seem to those skimming the comments, but folks have developed a bunch of thought-terminating cliches to empower this: calling anything involving AI "slop" is the most common, but more catchy (but fundamentally incoherent) phrases have also emerged:

> If you didn't take the time to write it, why should I read it?

I mean, fundamentally you read things if they bring value. It doesn't actually matter if a human wrote it. It matters if it is correct and useful. One implementation is to have a human review, but you can imagine others. Fundamentally anyone who reads and leverages the output of AI knows this. The phrase seems reasonable because it is a good refutation of folks literally copying and pasting AI output from their ChatGPT session in the comments, which I think everyone agrees isn't good hygiene for online discussion. Because the guideline is "right" in that case, it seems easy to apply everywhere, but I think that's overly broad.

> I have tokens, too. Just give me the prompt.

As if everything generated with AI is created as a one-shot with ChatGPT. I feel like half the people writing this stuff have no clue how professionals are using AI. The model, reasoning level, skills, tools, harness all matter, and that's even if the whole thing is a one-shot and we ignore all the server-side variables (inference engine, temperature, top_k, quantization level, etc.). If not, it's the product of a (probably extensive) back-and-forth with an AI, possibly changing models for various subagent calls (Kimi K2.7 Code for the plan, MiniMax M2.7 for implementation, Deepseek v4 Flash as advisor, etc.), etc. Orchestration is as important as prompt and context, but the space has a lot of dimensions. This is why you get radically opposed takes on models, harnesses, and the even the utility of AI: everybody is doing different stuff, solving different problems, and reporting results all over the spectrum. There was a guy just today on HN claiming Opus 4.8 was terrible at agentic development, for example, with half a dozen responses asking how s/he could possibly say that.

Anyway, my post was controversial, but overall negative on points. I just don't understand how anyone can actually use these tools and then post in such a black-and-white way about AI use. I spend a ton of time refining my use of AI and I'm getting better over time, but it's a lot of trial-and-error trying various combinations of tools and trying to match them to tasks. Appreciate your response and the discussion.

eth0up 2 hours ago | parent [-]

In posterity, your grayed comment will benchmark the integrity of the environment here. Grayed, dead, undisputed. Out of sight, out of mind, except for persisting anyway ;)

Keep the courage. That's what it was once all about.

eth0up a day ago | parent | prev [-]

I have over 6gb of material resulting from interactions with AI. Even a micro-essay of mediocre quality requires dozens of prompts. Why post dozens and dozens of prompts if the final product is cleaner, and easier to process? I see utterly zero reason.

Edit: One of the things I learned quickly while working with LLMs, is that the quality of the user, the input, determines the quality of the output. Not everyone's input is of equal quality.