We're going to have to (collectively at some point) decide that we shouldn't tie survival to working.

Whether that's UBI, or Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism, or UBS, or some AI managed economy, or some other such thing, we need to decide that "hey, we don't want to tied survival to output under our current system."

That's really the Rubicon we have to cross, and there are a LOT of people who can't really come up with a better way in their own heads yet.

Look, we all saw how things can be during the pandemic. That was a dark time, but it also gives us a model, we can just... do things. We just have to decide to do them.

▲

4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

[deleted]

▲

dudul 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Oh! Damn! Stupid me! "We have to collectively decide this", when is the meeting to vote on that again? When is the last time we all decided something collectively?

WTF does the pandemic have to do with this? "dark time", oh yeah, people stuck at home watching Netflix, what an incommensurable suffering!

Buddy, I can admire the naive childish optimism to a degree, but come on. "We just have to all decide". Do you live in a Disney movie?

▲

qarl2 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> WTF does the pandemic have to do with this?

I'm not sure, but if I may guess, I suspect he's talking about the fact that the entire US shut down for a year and people survived because the US Government printed money and gave it away free to businesses so they wouldn't collapse. (PPP loans.)

If we can do something like that for the pandemic, we can do something similar when push really comes to shove.

▲

piloto_ciego 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Thank you! We can decide to just... you know... do things.

Like, am I crazy here? The rules that we live by are largely made up and the points don't matter - we can decide to live in a better world if we want to. It's hard, and there are obstacles, for sure, but this appeal to doom for the sake of doom just... why? We have made unfathomable progress over the last century and if we keep trying we can make progress like that over the next century too!

▲

dudul an hour ago | parent [-]

> We can decide to just... you know... do things.

OK, this is Twitter-level conversation here, not interested. But hey, stay positive, more power to you.

	▲	piloto_ciego 14 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		You’re the one saying that we can’t. Not me.

▲

piloto_ciego 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I mean, a at least something like million people died just in the US with the most conservative estimates that I've seen (and by 2022). It was pretty dark, yeah.

But we also decided during that time to literally pay people to stay home for awhile. That was a really revolutionary thing and it was awesome. We could decide to do that again.

You can ad hominem until the cows come home, but yeah, we literally just kind of have to collectively decide that there are better ways to do things.

There's a fantastic book called "The Last Emperor of Mexico" I read a few years ago that really talks about how the idea of a Republic or Democracy in general was a pretty novel concept in the mid 1800s. People were a lot more skeptical about it than we're lead to believe now. But eventually, the ideas of aristocracy and some "well bred" group of various types of monarchs became silly on it's face. Now the default is that we should have some sort of democratic representation. That would seem utopian AF in 1820.

Well, we're going to have to bridge that sort of gap for getting rid of the need to justify our existence through work too. The transition is going to be weird, but we'll have to come up with something else and run with it.

Dream big buddy, I know it's hard, lord knows I do, but dream big, and work little by little towards those things you want to see in the world.