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TurdF3rguson a day ago

How is that a dark pattern? What is the light pattern for getting feedback from users?

hedora 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Not spam? There’s no “do not ask me again”.

Not typosquat? I responded with a sentence beginning in “1” once, and it jumped in during the race. It should have prompted with something like “WARNING: This will allow us to use this session including your source code for training, which is in violation of your account settings. Proceed with “Yes I understand”.

buzer a day ago | parent | prev [-]

There are multiple ways to use feedback. Personally I would often be fine with actual human reading my feedback, taking in account the points I made and evaluating how it should affect their feature development and future roadmap.

Now what I would expect AI companies to do is to take things which were submitted as feedback and pretty much adding to training:

"Do more of this: <copy of the whole response which was flagged as good in feedback>"

"Do less of this: <copy of the whole response which was flagged as bad in feedback>"

It's paraphrased, but the point is that they will most likely use it more-or-less as-is and thus whatever is in there will be part of the model's training set rather than someone picking up the parts from response that are important and only including them (which happens with traditional feedback).

dannyw a day ago | parent | next [-]

If you have a naive loop like this you will quickly poison your dataset with e.g. thumbs downs because someone is unhappy with the latest frontend update, or teach models to not correctly refuse. I’m sure the pipeline is more sophisticated and in the middle.

buzer a day ago | parent [-]

Sure, but the point is more that once you submit feedback then the usual "opt out of using my data for training" no longer apply and at least that reply (and possibly whole conversation) can be included in training set in one way or another.

TurdF3rguson a day ago | parent | prev [-]

But we already know they're not using the transcript for training (unless you opted in t that)

buzer a day ago | parent [-]

They don't use your general chats it if you have opted out (note: opted out, not opted in). However if you submit feedback then whole conversation can be used.

https://help.openai.com/en/articles/5722486-how-your-data-is...

> Even if you have opted out of training, you can still choose to provide feedback to us about your interactions with our products (for instance, by selecting thumbs up or thumbs down on a model response). If you choose to provide feedback, the entire conversation associated with that feedback may be used to train our models.

https://privacy.claude.com/en/articles/7996885-how-do-you-us...

> If you explicitly report materials to us (e.g.via our thumbs up/down feedback mechanisms), or by otherwise explicitly opting in to training, then we may use those materials to train our models.

TurdF3rguson a day ago | parent [-]

Again, that's a yes for OpenAI and a no for Anthropic.

buzer a day ago | parent [-]

No for what? The opt-in for model training? About a year ago Anthropic changed "Allow use of your chats and coding sessions to train and improve Anthropic AI models" to default to on: https://www.anthropic.com/news/updates-to-our-consumer-terms

Or do you mean the feedback stuff? Their KB article at least seems to contradict that.

TurdF3rguson a day ago | parent [-]

No it's opt-in now. Yes they nag you and might ask you if they can use your transcript to train on but you have to agree to it and it's something you can disable.

buzer a day ago | parent [-]

That's good if true. When did it change? I very much do remember that back when the change happened the modal I received didn't actually say anything (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45064212) and thus I was by default opted-in until I saw the news and went to disable it, fortunately before the training actually started.

TurdF3rguson a day ago | parent [-]

I'm not sure but I had this same conversation with CC just days ago and it told me to check my settings because it changed. My account is 4 months old and it was disabled so I assume it's been opt-in for at least 4 months.