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himata4113 7 hours ago

Hasn't the stock already collapsed below IPO price? Does that mean the IPO was simply overpriced? Do these people expect the stock to go down even further? Shorting is way more risky I don't see why this would be the case unless my questions turned out to be predictions.

mrweasel 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I wouldn't say that it collapsed, it's only slightly under its IPO price, $134 vs. $135.

However it's not going up and later this month the first lockup period ends and people who got stock options are allowed to sell some of their stocks. These people don't care if the price is $134 or $135, because they go in much much lower, down to $30, from what I can tell. So starting this month there's going to be new shares available to buy, and the sellers are less critical of the price your offering.

hattmall 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, people expect it to trade much lower, around $40 per share, still would be a huge valuation for what the company has done. Goldman Sachs analysts had an extreme range, of like $6 Billion to $5T, but the consensus $2T required 100x revenue multiple by 2030. If revenue was less than 10x by 2030 it's less than $100B company, and only $6B if it remains flat. So a lot of downsides and the upside requires a continuation of some insane magic.

kirubakaran 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Goldman Sachs analysts had an extreme range, of like $6 Billion to $5T

What a weird way for them to say "we don't know"! It's like saying this house has 0 to 100 bathrooms.

hattmall 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

True, but it's the range from different analysts. Saying "we don't know" isn't really an option. Gotta say something when your IPOing a trillion dollar company.

marcosdumay 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

To keep the proportions correct, it's between a model house the size of a piece of paper or a normal 2-bedrooms.

PaulDavisThe1st 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

"So you're saying there's a chance? It might actually be possible to have 100 bathrooms! I knew it!"

AviationAtom 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I haven't seen anything saying $40. The lowest I have seen is $70.

rconti 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

From TFA:

> "I think it could be half over the course of the year," Noble said, adding that he believes a fair value for the shares is around $30, implying a decline of roughly 78% from current levels.

AviationAtom 6 hours ago | parent [-]

That's an absurd valuation. Typically stocks are valued at what people are willing to pay, with earnings partially driving that value.

unknownfuture an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I'd argue the opposite. If the price is largely vibes, you could see wild swings if sentiment changes dramatically. The bitcoin market is an excellent example of this. Worse, the recent BBB- rating on their bond issuance suggests a lack of lender confidence, and if their stock continues to decline those factors could compound.

mattas 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

A rational person isn't willing to pay more than the present value of future cash flows. Just like how a rational person wouldn't pay $101 for a $100 bill.

Where it gets fun is that: (1) we have people selling $100 bills for more than $100 and, (2) we have people gladly buying $100 bills for more than $100.

axus 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Verizon + AT&T + Boeing was my estimate for SpaceX value.

mikeryan 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think the pullback from the initial IPO bump was expected. I think the news here is expectations that it has a lot more downside to come.

Particularly once it gets past the lockup period. If I had to guess I say a lot of folks are thinking a lot of people will sell post lock up and they’re timing their shorts around that date.

anthonj 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Tbh I'm no5 sure I've even seen an IPO where the price didn't collapse initially.

dofm 6 hours ago | parent [-]

More than half of IPOs fall below their price in the first year and AFAIK it’s something like more than half underperforming market over the first five.

Basically an IPO is a bad bet for a five year position. But SPCX is especially bad.

downrightmike 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

JPM still thinks its a $300 stock

ryandvm 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It is... as long as somebody else thinks so.

jgalt212 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

so does Jack Grubman, after being instructed to take a "fresh look" at it.