The thing is - as a European, I can choose between plague and cholera.

One has mostly been reliable, stayed peaceful towards us and is primarily concerned with their internal matters and the countries right next to it. They have long-term strategy and understanding of win-win situations.

The other one keeps threatening to invade/steal Greenland. Keeps waging an economic war against the entire bloc. Positions their propagandists right in our middle and does the best to influence our elections. Exports fascism and finances antidemocratic forces. Supports the genocide in that certain country. And still have their soldiers in our country, against the wishes of a majority of the population. Oh and they don't honor any treaties if they feel like it.

Easy choice.

Does that make china an angel? Hell no, they are still committed to enslaving the Uyghur people, keep threatening neighbors and are mostly han supremacists. Human rights are seen as merely a suggestion by them.

But at the time being, one is clearly more reliable than the other. Long-term, I'd like to avoid both the US and China.

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uhhhhwhaaaa 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

>One has mostly been reliable, stayed peaceful towards us and is primarily concerned with their internal matters and the countries right next to it.

This is textbook international relations realism. Rising powers pretend they aren't powerful so countries don't balance against them.

Their actions are entirely predictable.

Then suddenly they will begin to do imperialism, like all great powers, and suddenly they will pretend to be stronger than they are.

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lompad 7 hours ago | parent [-]

And then I'm of course going to root for getting rid of them.

What alternative would you propose? Currently, there's no alternative I know of, either you rely on the US or on China or both.

Me and many others are doing our best building that alternative and promoting local solutions in all areas, but it takes time. And until then, I'd like to use the one that isn't threatening to steal our territory, thank you very much.

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uhhhhwhaaaa 6 hours ago | parent [-]

You are rooting for the dictatorship that has 0 political freedom, devalues their currency and hurts their own population, they kill their people and cover it up, and have no freedom of speech.

Why?

	▲	lompad 6 hours ago \| parent [-]
		You did not offer me an alternative. Please don't move the goalposts. And I'm still not rooting _for_ them, I'm rooting for choosing their services above american ones for the time being. That's quite a different thing, as should be obvious. Respond to things I actually said and not things you think I might possibly think.

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nerfbatplz 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The last time China bombed a foreign country was nearly 50 years ago.

A very inconvenient truth for the China hawks.

	▲	Levitz 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		No, just aesthetic trivia that can be paraded around to make them look good. Given how China behaves it should be evident that the only reason they don't apply military force is because they are not in position to. Not abusing military strength is not exactly being the paragon of virtue when your opposition could probably glass the world thrice before the day is over.

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6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[deleted]

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Levitz 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>Keeps waging an economic war against the entire bloc.

>Positions their propagandists right in our middle and does the best to influence our elections.

>Exports fascism and finances antidemocratic forces.

>Supports the genocide in that certain country.

>Oh and they don't honor any treaties if they feel like it.

I don't know how anyone can really mention any of these when trying to paint a bad picture of anyone as compared to China. It's just an obscene exercise in ignorance. I just can't make sense of discourse like this except as a result of propaganda.

	▲	lompad 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I won't go through everything, but just as an example: You are not mentioning the greenland situation - why? That's the really big one and the one that made the US much closer to "enemy" than "friend". After all, friends don't threaten to annex your territory. Regarding propagandists and financing of antidemocratic forces: this refers to a current issue. US is deliberately financing spreading of its ideology in the EU, as they confirmed themselves. [0] With the genocide, that discussion I'm going to stay clear of, as nobody will be convinced of the other position anyway, too heated. Shouldn't have mentioned it in the first place, as this always leads to flamewars. mb. Regarding honoring of treaties: let's start with the budapest memorandum - I think that was the first really big one. Then, the 1967 Refugee Protocol which forbids third-country deportations. Then, the UN Framework Convention On Climate Change. Violation of the UN charter, withholding of promised funds. The Convention Against TOrture. Then all the broken/ignored/overturned trade treaties, all the promises made and not kept - how would anything rely on their word at all anymore? I could go on for multiple pages. Why do those not count? Why do they have to be "propaganda"? It is unbelievably difficult being reliant on the US in any way right now. And that's what I'm talking about. Not, which is the "better" country. Reliability and ... well, utility to its partners is the basis of it all. Which right now - compared to china - is rapidly sinking. So where is that ignorance you are speaking of? [0]: https://web.archive.org/web/20260716141817/https://www.thegu...

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xyzsparetimexyz 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>committed to enslaving the Uyghur people

What?

	▲	msdz 6 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghurs > Since 2014, the Chinese government has been accused of subjecting Uyghurs in Xinjiang to widespread persecution, including arbitrary arrest and detention, forced sterilization, and forced labor. This is denied by China.