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pydry a day ago

If there is a large war, those countries will prioritize domestic consumption and the UK will immediately stop being able to produce weapons.

Domestic steel production is an essential element of being sovereign, as opposed to being the handpuppet of a larger power (like the US).

pjc50 a day ago | parent | next [-]

Now check where the inputs to steel production come from.

The UK built a lot of refining to use local iron ore and coal deposits. It used those deposits. They are now substantially used up. Subsurface mining is uneconomic, and open mining is politically unthinkable.

There is actually a really high quality government review of the whole subject: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/690b868714b04...

Lots of discussion of moving to EAF/DRI from traditional blast furnaces.

timcobb a day ago | parent [-]

When there's a war and you need sovereignty how would open mining be unthinkable

RandomLensman a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't see how the UK could generally be self-sufficient in any large war.

nradov a day ago | parent | next [-]

It certainly wasn't self-sufficient in the last two large wars.

t0mpr1c3 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Britain's last two territorial conflicts involved the Falklands, and Icelandic fishing ships in the neighborhood of Rockall. I don't recall that third party assistance was required in either dispute, thank you very much.

The US the other hand is always asking for other countries to bail it out of some mess or other.

nradov an hour ago | parent [-]

Did you miss the word "large"? And the UK required significant US assistance during the Falkland Islands war, so apparently you're quite ignorant about history.

https://time.com/archive/6882618/just-how-much-did-the-u-s-h...

illliillll 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The UK has nuclear weapons.

t0mpr1c3 2 hours ago | parent [-]

The command and control systems are American. The intelligence network is American. The last time the British military acted without US support was Suez. The UK went in on NATO 100%.

France took an entirely different set of conclusions from Suez.

0x3f a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> If there is a large war, those countries will prioritize domestic consumption and the UK will immediately stop being able to produce weapons.

Same with the iron we'd need to make our own steel.

And a current glut just makes it even cheaper for us to stockpile, vs spending on votes by propping up a failing industry.

15155 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Domestic steel production is an essential element of being sovereign, as opposed to being the handpuppet of a larger power (like the US).

How did self-sufficiency shake out for Europe as a whole during WWII?

georgeecollins a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Really? There is a large war going on right now and the key material is chips. Drone don't use a lot of steel, neither do missiles or modern airplanes.

Yes you need artillery and particularly shells. But you are so much more limited by the capacity of your munition factories that how much steel you have would not be an issue. One of the main things you would need for a new munitions factory is trained workers.

The World Wars were wars of mass mobilization and industrial capacity. People went into the first thinking cavalry was important, the second thinking battleships still mattered. My point is I have no idea what the next great war might be like, but thinking the winner will be who chugs out the most tanks in five years may be looking in the rear view mirror.

hylaride a day ago | parent | next [-]

You can't occupy territory with drones (yet). You will need people and moving people in a drone-infested environment will mean protecting them with armoured vehicles. Yes, these vehicles will need enhancements and other new tech to counter drones, but armoured vehicles aren't going away (MAYBE the tank's days are numbered, though).

If you are really interested in this, I highly recommend subscribing to war on the rocks. Their articles and paid podcasts have legit defense industry people publishing studies on this subject. https://warontherocks.com

georgeecollins a day ago | parent [-]

Thanks, I subscribe.

I am not saying drones are everything. My point is, where is the war in which steel is critical ?

nradov a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's a myth that battleships didn't matter in WWII. They ended up being critically important in the Pacific Theater for carrier escort and amphibious fire support. They didn't stop mattering until the widespread deployment of guided missiles and other precision munitions.

georgeecollins a day ago | parent [-]

They found a use for them but no reason to build anymore.

timcobb a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Drones are only part of the equation you need to be able to forge things