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cebert 7 hours ago

If we don’t do something about this, I fear future generations will not view us in a positive light.

Arubis 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

We _are_ doing something about this. We’re locating concentrated millions of years of trapped fossil energy and moving it into our atmosphere as fast as we possibly can. To a first approximation, that is the world economy.

Or did you mean to do something differently?

dunWithIt 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

We have to do less

There has been a lot of debate over AC use. Everyone chiming in only discusses runtime energy use.

The biggest issue is mining and manufacturing, and the moving of all the materials, parts, and such.

Every AC has sheathed wires and circuit boards.

Every airplane, car, phone, network router, refrigerator... same expansive mess creation.

Gamers complaining about disc less games despite that problem pipeline and waste.

Complaining about RAM prices despite the problem pipeline.

No one is focused on the lag effects, externalities, of billions using up an endless supply of technologies and dumping airplane smog in the atmosphere. Etc, etc, etc

Thermodynamics makes it pretty clear that energy is not gone just hanging out in the atmosphere.

Thermodynamics means we may be fucked even if we slow down; that energy in the atmosphere can only go from atmosphere into oceans, glaciers, and permafrost. There's a lot of potential energy in the Earth to release as it absorbs the heat already in the atmosphere

florakel 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I totally agree with you that our unhinged consumption behavior is the core problem. And with AI we stepped on the accelerator again.

But regarding your second statement. The actual problem is the greenhouse effect of CO2 and Methane in the atmosphere which traps the suns energy in our atmosphere heating up oceans, ice and landmass. The heat we produce is negligible compared to the energy the sun sends every day. The greenhouse gases are the problem. And you are right, pulling away that blanket so that more heat can dissipate into space will take a looong time (growing trees) or cost an insane amount of (clean) energy, reversing the chemical processes of burning oil, gas and coal.

dunWithIt 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Right; I already covered that explaining the runtime energy use of tech is not the real issue. It's the endless production.

kennywinker 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Gamers complaining about disc less games despite that problem pipeline and waste.

Tbf the issue is the user-hostile parameters of buying a diskless game. Most people would be happy to download their games if they could back them up to a thumb drive and never get locked out of them and sell the game when they’re done with it.

Seems deeply tangential, but it’s not. Blaming people for wanting a physical thing because the alternative is being further abused by a corporation - that’s a miss. Be mad at game platforms for not offering real ownership in whatever the most climate-friendly way possible. Be mad at governments for not forcing companies to cost in the negative externalities of their business.

cherrycherry98 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If you want less of something, tax it. Support consumption based taxes like the FairTax in the US which would tax new goods at a high rate while used goods would be tax free. This encourages keeping items for longer, repairing rather than replacing, and purchasing used goods over new ones.

dunWithIt 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Oh well ok I will get right on raising taxes. So simple I should have done it sooner.

FairTax is regressive and does nothing to stop a trillionaire from launching dick rockets to nowhere. Each rocket and launch using more resources than a poor person will their entire life.

cherrycherry98 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Not sure why the snarky response, obviously most people have very little direct influence over these things.

So you oppose green tax policy on the grounds that it isn't punitive enough against rich people? A rich person living a miserly life would pay little in taxes, I see no problem with that.

I assume that you are alluding to someone specific with the rocket launching trillionaire quip. That would be the same person who helped make electric vehicles viable and also helped develop reusable rockets, far greener than one time use ones, no?

Alpha3031 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't think having rich people pay more taxes relative to their income should be considered punitive. Progressive taxation has a long history going back to the first modern income taxes in the 18th or 19th centuries on the basis that low income people have a more reduced capacity to pay (due to non-discretionary spending on necessities being a higher portion of income when it is lower) and I think it's reasonable to expect it out of taxes.

Though, I do recognise that having one regressive tax wouldn't necessarily make the entire tax-and-transfers system regressive (or even more regressive, if that tax money is spent).

dunWithIt 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

gpt5 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Both Europe and US's emissions are significantly (18%-30%) below their peak (which was 20 years ago. The rest of the world is also moving towards renewables.

graeme 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Global co2 emissions are at an all time high.

Co2 parts per million are a stock, like the level of water in a bathtub. Annual emissions are a flow, like how strongly the water is flowing in.

The tub is fuller than ever before AND filling at the fastest rate ever.

The problem is that carbon energy is useful. So unless something globally beats almost all use cases then somewhere marginally it will be worth burning vs not burning it.

https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions

gpt5 6 hours ago | parent [-]

It's a leaking bathtub. Half life of excess CO2 in the atmosphere is 30-100 years. So you need the water flowing in to continue to increase in rate (not just to continue flowing in), otherwise you reach a new equilibrium and the CO2 levels in the atmosphere stop increasing.

They do increase in rate as you said (for now).

graeme 5 hours ago | parent [-]

That's a rather misleading statistic. Some is absorbed by oceans, where it acidifies. For land based carbon sinks (trees, soil, etc) any new carbon being deposited is competing with existing carbon in the carbon cycle.

If your stat had any sense then atmospheric carbon levels would rapidly plunge in a few centuries without humans burning carbon. They plainly don't do that.

gpt5 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Carbon levels are expected to plunge over a few centuries if carbon emissions drop.

You are right the the ocean is the largest carbon sink, and it has the negative side effect of acidifying.

darth_avocado 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

While yes the emissions are down from 2007 and majority of it has been driven by the shift away from coal in power generation.

However, every other sector has been rather flat in terms of emissions since the 90s. When you account for the fact that a large amount of industries have moved to China and other developing countries, the fact that emissions from industries have been flat, means that the overall consumption has gone up.

If you account for the emissions that we’ve offshored, we’d not be looking so good.

AlecSchueler 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Both Europe and US's emissions are significantly (18%-30%) below their peak

Because they outsource their dirty work. To get a true picture of US/EU emissions you need to factor in the factories in Asia that are producing their consumer goods, as well as the global transport network that supports this.

hn_throwaway_99 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

How much of that is just outsourcing much of our industry to Asia/etc.?

enraged_camel 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yes, this is the right question to ask. A lot of the decrease in emissions in Western nations is the equivalent of dumping your trash in a lot across town. Sure it's "gone", but only in a technical sense.

tonyedgecombe 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not as much as people would have you believe.

karmakurtisaani 3 hours ago | parent [-]

What a terrible answer.

gpt5 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Asia is also moving towards renewables.

crystal_revenge 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

On the path we're on I don't think we'll have to worry too much about future generations.

The EU has already seeing 10,000 excess deaths from climate changed caused heat waves and this is a minuscule taste of what's to come.

A very large percentage of mass extinction events have their roots in increased atmospheric CO2, but all of them on dramatically increased time scales. The closest thing in the history of the planet to what's happening to day was PETM [0] and that was only a lessor extinction event because the Earth was already quite warm (for example, there was already no polar ice at the time).

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleocene%E2%80%93Eocene_therm...

therealdrag0 6 hours ago | parent [-]

How many excess deaths from cold?

goatlover 6 hours ago | parent [-]

How many die from cold in the summer?

JumpCrisscross 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You may enjoy Ian McEwan's What We Can Know: "Civilization as we know it ends. A pair of scholars in 2120, risking death from roving predatory gangs, travel across what’s left of England in search of a long-lost, epoch-making poem titled 'A Corona for Vivien.' They are the last, it seems, historians alive" [1]. (It's less apocalyptic than this makes it seem, at least relative to the modern apocalyptic genre à la Mad Max.)

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/22/books/review/ian-mcewan-w...

AlecSchueler 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

At this point I'll be happy if there are future generations with the capacity to look back and understand what happened.

solumunus 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Current generations don’t view us in a positive light.

FranzFerdiNaN 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I’m already do not view our own and the previous generations in a positive light.

elchief 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They'll be too dumb from CO2 poisoning to understand the problem!

weregiraffe 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You shouldn't care about how imaginary people view you.

cute_boi 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have already accepted that there is nothing plebs can do about climate change. I can try hard by using public transport, using less plastic, and using less air conditioning, but all of those efforts are rendered useless by rich people going on vacation in yachts or private planes. And if you talk about reducing meat consumption, Americans will go mad, lol.

Ordinary plebs trying to prevent climate change is like subtracting $100 from a billion dollars - it does not make any meaningful difference.

myaccountonhn 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They're not rendered useless. Do you argue the same way about voting too?

Ultimately consumption is 2/3s of all emissions, and the majority of it is not billionaires.

defrost 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Are you saying that no billionaire profits from the consumption of others?

And, if some do, do they not maximise that profit by seeking to maximise the consumption of others?

therealdrag0 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Are you saying no pleb wants to consume? Are you saying no pleb demands more product? Are you saying no pleb wants their polluting employer to continue so they have a job? Are you saying no pleb chooses to lower cost but more polluting options at every turn?

myaccountonhn 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I say no such thing.

plqbfbv an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Ordinary plebs trying to prevent climate change is like subtracting $100 from a billion dollars - it does not make any meaningful difference.

It stops making any difference if everyone stops trying. You compare this to subtracting $100 from a billion, but a billion dollars is composed of 10 million $100, and there's only a few rich people in those 10 million.

reed1234 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

But 800B dollars would matter. And you can vote.

alephnerd 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> If we don’t do something about this...

We can't. We're too late.

China (13 GT), the US (4.6 GT), and India (3 GT) alone represent 51% of global carbon emissions - and at least in India's case, it is growing at a rate of 5%.

Throw in other large polluters like Russia (2 GT), Indonesia (0.8 GT), Iran (0.8 GT), KSA (0.6 GT), Brazil (0.5 GT), and Vietnam (0.5 GT) whose rate of carbon emissions is growing in the 5-10% range and you see there is no path forward.

Any amount of de-carbonization that China or the collective West does is automatically negated by the other countries I listed. At best global carbon emissions stagnate - which by default is going to lead to a 2-3 °C increase in temperatures.

jmward01 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You conveniently left the US out of that and the US's role in driving global emissions. China is also likely rapidly de-carbonizing right now just like they rapidly spun up. They are an issue, but the US and its policies have a massive impact on this problem. Same with Europe. Rapidly adopting renewables and not externalizing our emissions to other countries would go a long way.

I have seen the argument shift from 'That's a lie. Global warming doesn't exist. Stop pushing regulations for a non-existent problem.' To 'Maybe it does, or there is some human impact but this is all within normal variation and the climate can take some amount of pollution so stop trying to regulate it!' to, I guess the new argument of, 'It's too late so why try? We shouldn't change course because it won't matter so stop trying to regulate the problem away.' It isn't too late. Do something.

JumpCrisscross 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> China is also likely rapidly de-carbonizing right now

Huh. "China’s carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions fell by 1% in the final quarter of 2025, likely securing a decline of 0.3% for the full year as a whole" [1].

So "rapidly de-carbonising" is wrong. But decarbonising per se is correct.

[1] https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-chinas-co2-emissions-ha...

jmward01 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Chin's emissions rose by 20% from 2017 to 2024 and then flat-lined in 2025 with emissions expected to decline in 2026. That is what decarbonization looks like, the rate of change has swung massively in the right direction. The .3 in 2025 will likely turn into -1.5 in 2026 and more after that. They have embraced alternative energy because it is now making them money and gaining them influence. That trend won't change and they will keep on decarbonizing because it is the easy, profitable, route.

JumpCrisscross 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> That is what decarbonization looks like

Sure, I gave you that. But you went further. China is not “rapidly de-carbonizing right now.” It’s forecast to start rapidly decarbonizing in the next decade.

AuthAuth 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Its only falling per Chinese gov data. The trend since 2019 is for them to downplay emission data and when the next international review comes around we'll have seen that it was actually increasing for the past 3 years and everything will be revised and they will say oh its decreasing starting from now and everyone will forget that the gov stats were lying and take their word that its decreasing.

defrost 6 hours ago | parent [-]

  NASA’s Orbiting Carbon Observatory, 2 (OCO-2) provides the most complete dataset tracking the concentration of atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO₂), the main driver of climate change. Every day, OCO-2 measures sunlight reflected from Earth’s surface to infer the dry-air column-averaged CO₂ mixing ratio and provides around 100,000 cloud-free observations.
JumpCrisscross 3 hours ago | parent [-]

…and what do those data say about China’s emissions?

defrost 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I'd love to know- ATM I've been on the hop all day and haven't had the time or the access to have a look see .. NASA datasets have less live website presentation this last year.

The main point to be landed by that terse comment was that the world isn't merely reliant on CCP statements.

2 hours ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
AuthAuth 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

China is not rapidly de-carbonizing. They've put off even starting to transition to clean energy by 15 years and they lag behind the other nations. They shouldnt be where the US is as the US has done an awful job. They should be where the EU is.

Hikikomori 2 hours ago | parent [-]

In 2025 China installed more solar than the US has, and almost more than what the EU has in total. About the same for wind. So yes they're doing it an extreme pace compared to US/EU as we're comparing 1 year to what the EU/US has done for decades.

alephnerd 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Both China and the US have similar carbon emission growth rates (0.3-0.5%).

And that does nothing to stop the collective 8 GT of carbon emissions coming from India and the other countries I listed with an average emissions increase rate of around 3-5%.

tim-projects 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A lot if this industrialisation is actually factories making products that are outsourced manufacturing. So it doesn't really make sense to say its China, India's or Vietnam's fault, when most of the products are being shipped to the US and EU and are not necessarily local born companies.

suzzer99 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What is Western Europe's #?

alephnerd 7 hours ago | parent [-]

1.1 GT combined but shrinking yearly by 1-3%, which isn't enough to make up for the combined increase in carbon emissions from India, ASEAN, MENA, LatAm, and Russia.

myaccountonhn 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Are those domestic emissions only? Or do we include emissions from purchasing goods from other countries?

alephnerd 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Overall emissions.

But the UK and EU (the only large polluters who have even considered carbon tariffs) have largely watered them down - for example, yesterday with the UK increasing it's duty free steel quota for India [0] as Tata Steel owns much of the UK's steel capacity and demand (JLR is a Tata company). Add to that the EU's largest steel maker is owned by India's Mittal family (AcrelorMittal) and European conglomerates like Renault [1] are expanding manufacturing in markets like India, which means using Indian steel.

And all of that ignores domestic growth in all those countries. Base GDP growth rates are expected to be in the 6.5-8% for India and ASEAN despite deglobalization because domestic markets are growing.

[0] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-07-14/india-win...

[1] - https://www.reuters.com/world/india/renault-plans-boost-indi...

cute_boi 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Despite all the pollution, 24% of Indians live below the lower-middle-income poverty line of $4.20 per day...

alephnerd 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes, and?

That's why nothing will happen.

Developing countries like India, Indonesia, and Vietnam are continuing to expand their emissions as they industrialize. All are expected to have an GDP growth rate in the 6-8% range over the next decade, as will their peers across Asia, so the carbon footprint globally will only increase.

Even China's emissions rate aren't decreasing - they're stagnant, which is a good shift, but not enough to turn the tide given how large China's existing carbon footprint is.

Edit: can't reply

> but they're not going to expand by taking on coal and fossil fuels...

India [0], Vietnam [1], and other large industrializing nation in Asia have all doubled down on expanding coal usage over the last 6 months. And that's ignoring increased usage of NatGas and Oil.

[0] - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/india-will-use-more-...

[1] - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/vietnam-looks-more-c...

peterashford 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah, but they're not going to expand by taking on coal and fossil fuels. The third world is taking on green energy alternatives at a great rate. Not least because it's cheaper and more convenient. These countries can grow without the damage that marked the Western world through the industrial revolution onwards

6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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z0ltan 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

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