Remix.run Logo
zkmon an hour ago

You need to first address 1)What is work? 2)Why we need to work?

Animals don't "work". Not atleast for their own sake. If there is enough green pasture and water around, they don't even migrate to other places. So if work is meant to provide food and shelter and if machines can ensure that, humans don't need to "work".

Wealth is only a reserve capacity to help future generations so that they don't need to work for their basic needs. But if machines ensure that too, then wealth itself, as a reserve, is unnecessary.

jrowen an hour ago | parent | next [-]

This. Before we worry about how much work there is left, we have to define what work is "to be done." We're already at a point where an incredible amount of work done isn't strictly "necessary." It's not growing food, it's not making clothing, it's not building houses, or providing other basic needs and comforts...

How many man-hours go into various parts of the advertising distribution chain? Though a certain fraction of that energy goes to connecting people with goods and services they might find valuable, most of it goes into shifting numbers around for people that already don't personally have to worry about money.

We don't need to find endless ways for people to spin wheels, but as long as we're worried about "jobs," we will. We just need to find the social structures to provide people with basic needs and reserve "work" for things that are vital to society or truly inspired.

AuthAuth an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There exists to many complex things in the world and we cannot do it all ourselves. We work so that we have something of value to trade to the people who do the work on the things we want.

We will never automate all work so we with half of humanity doing nothing of value it will be a struggle for the people who do nothing of value to convince people to do work for them.

We can see it now where products dont target the people without money. There is no point because they cant give you any reward so instead you do your work for the people that can give you something in return. We can use the government to stimulate and balance this a bit but at a certain point the number gets to high and things collapse.

lelanthran an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

This is a very short-sighted, and exceedingly common, take.

Until the machines aren't owned by anyone (or owned by everyone, take your pick on the phrasing), the owners of the machine have no need to keep you alive.

This take is basically "Don't worry, people like Sam Altman are looking out for us"...

zkmon 19 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Disparity in ownership of machines is not the main factor that is driving the need for work. It is the un-ending desire (or selling pressure) to have things that require money to buy. Most people work to be able to pay their loans and have things that are perceived to be common needs in their geography and culture.

These "needs" are sometimes enforced by the systems and government so that people don't stay away from the work and "economy" keeps churning. The housing prices could be a way to keep the people working for loan payments.

Instant foods, nursing homes for elderly, creches, roads, commuter trains - are all ways to have more workers and make them focused on work.

lelanthran a few seconds ago | parent [-]

You are missing my point; if you have no value other than unthinking manual labour to offer the world, why would the world keep you alive?

"Work" doesn't exist to keep people busy, it exists to keep them alive.

strken 38 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

It's quite a good metaphor. What used to happen to an old horse? How many horses do you see now that the world has moved to tractors[0]?

I can't wait to be kept in agistment by my overlords, fed on treacle and oats, ridden in circles once a fortnight, and shot when I break a leg.

[0] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/United-States-Farm-based...

defrost 30 minutes ago | parent [-]

> I can't wait to be kept in agistment by my overlords, fed on treacle and oats, ridden in circles once a fortnight, and shot when I break a leg.

Luxury horse living during the heyday of working horses and pit ponies, "horse power" wasn't left ideal for a fortnight.

> How many horses do you see now that the world

Personally, a surprising number perhaps, there's a pony club at the top of my street in town, and the area is still littered with horses and other livestock.

This isn't my area, but it's not dissimilar: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45623799

Full size image: https://live-production.wcms.abc-cdn.net.au/a26664f6500a7c74...