Any good outliner alternatives out there?

I originally came from Roam and was really happy to find an offline alternative in Logseq. I've since moved to Obsidian, though. Obsidian works well, but I still feel like my brain works best with the outliner-style workflow that Roam and Logseq offer.

I have heard of https://outl.app/ but when I tried it out, it still seemed in a very early stage (and heavily vibe-coded, which I also don't enjoy).

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chrisweekly 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Obsidian's "Outliner" plugin is really pretty good. Esp. assuming "Editing view" and "Live Preview" editing mode, (which combine for WYSIWYG).

I appreciate the standard, intuitive keyboard shortcuts for creating/removing bullets, indenting/outdenting, moving lines up or down, etc.

Also, you can use the built-in syntax for block references to kinda-sorta recreate the Roam block-based setup.

	▲	packetlost 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I've found it lacking, especially with kinda buggy interaction with the vim keybindings. Obsidian's data model, a huge selling point to some, really hinders it too. Logseq's new db format let's you treat any block as a page, metadata and all which can be super helpful.

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wosk 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You might want to try this new logseq though, if the devs have not burned all your goodwill. You can use it with a markdown mirror (it's a feature under settings) so you keep you same notes in markdown as well.

It's open-source, really well designed, local, you can even self-host sync...

But: the devs make questionable decisions that makes the development roadmap quite bumpy. It should ease up.

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dogmayor 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Take a look at Kosshi. I like it so far.

https://kosshi.app/

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xienze 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's not exactly like logseq but I really like SilverBullet (https://silverbullet.md/). It's self-hostable and really hackable (plugins, dynamic categorization via embedding custom queries, etc.). Browsers are the first class platform. I really dislike how logseq/Obsidian etc. try to push you towards local fat clients or web clients that only use browser local storage. I _want_ everything stored on a central server so I can just pick up on any device without having to sync.

	▲	flkiwi 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Same. And it's been fascinating to watch the genuine gap between people in our camp and people who really, really want "local-first" (which, to me, translates to inconvenience and otherwise unnecessary sync requirements).

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Tomte 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Workflowy.

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AbstractH24 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Workflowy's never-ending delays for an API make Logseq look fast.

Truth is, it's been nearly a decade since I used Workflowy and nothing has ever been as good. But the inability to email notes to it or otherwise push data to it from other sources was such a deal breaker. Particularly as mobile became a larger and larger part of my life.

Then there was Moo.do, the next best infinite-outline tool I could find. Their rebrand as Legend was strange, made it hard to find the app, and, from an SEO perspective, was an odd choice.

One of these days I should return to either Workflowy or Legend. My issues were silly and now are much more surmountable.

EDIT: WOW, Workflowy has really gotten with the times! Seems to be iterating much faster and even has an MCP server.

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phil42 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's what I started with originally, but it's not offline and stores all data on their servers. Something like Workflowy but offline or self-hosted would be brilliant.

	▲	shaism 4 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		I created a version for personal use a month ago. https://github.com/SharifIsmail/tendril Feel free to give it a try. Agents can also directly interact with it.
	▲	AbstractH24 3 hours ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		So, Obsidian?
	▲	karencarits 4 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Maybe someone can put Claude Fable on it

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bossyTeacher 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Workflowy is not free. If you are willing to pay, Obsidian > Workflowy. If you are not willing to pay, Obsidian > Workflowy.

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swah 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Same, was trying this again today. I like the parity of web and TUI.

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yes_but_no 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

bike, if you are on macos https://www.hogbaysoftware.com/bike/

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lab14 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Workflowy is awesome.

	▲	bogdan 5 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Am I missing something? I get 100 bullets per month unless I subscribe? There are so many alternatives that are free. I'm using Capacities right now which seems way more feature rich and I haven't hit any limits on the free plan.