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big85 2 days ago

If you don't fight government overreach now, it becomes permanent.

bsimpson 2 days ago | parent [-]

As my dad told us every time we crossed a bridge when we were kids:

"Tolls are a ratchet - they only move in one direction."

BigTTYGothGF 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Former_toll_roads_in_...

thegrim33 a day ago | parent | next [-]

Because as we all know, even if a claim holds in 99.999% of cases, all you have to do is point out the 0.001% extreme outlier cases where it didn't hold true, to completely invalidate the entire claim.

THX1137 19 hours ago | parent [-]

If you claim that something only moves in one direction, then one counterexample is enough to invalidate that claim. If you say in 99.999% of cases something only moves in one direction, then that claim can be invalidated by showing that either more or less of cases result as claimed... Isn't that straightforward thinking?

I seriously doubt that 99.999% of all toll roads are "ratchets" that only move in one direction, i.e. have never had the tolls lowered or removed, only increased. Examples of tolls being lowered and removed are also not extreme outliers it's one of the possible directions in which a toll's price can move and everyone and their aunt, but maybe not their dad, knows that.

maeglin a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Don't make me tap the "you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason into" sign

THX1137 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

An example of the opposite happening in Ontario in 2022: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/highway-412-418-tolls...

tialaramex 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Because England is very old it has a whole bunch of things which did charge a toll and then that expired, so, nope.

It does also have situations where people go "Hey, this toll bridge was built 50 years ago, surely the tolls should be abolished" and the people who built the bridge are like "Nope. See, here's the press about it 50 years ago saying what a great idea it is to have the tolls be slightly lower but perpetual". Feel free to build a time machine and go tell your past selves that's not a great idea after all.

But well, nothing is forever. In five hundred years that perpetual toll on a road is obsolete because hardly anybody owns a private vehicle so the toll mostly just moves (local) government money from one pile (funding transport) to another (build infrastructure) and it's not a very efficient way to do that. Or the bridge falls down and its replacement doesn't have a toll because people were sick of tolls. Nothing is forever.

BuyMyBitcoins 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

In my part of the United States, the state government authorized the construction of toll roads with an agreement that those roads would eventually be handed over to the state government once the projects have been paid off.

That being said, the toll roads keep expanding so that they can continue to be operated by the private company that built them.

This is an arrangement the state government is quite happy with, because they do not have to budget for the maintenance of those roads and they are able to collect taxes on the revenue collected by the toll authority. Converting those toll roads would cause a spike in expenditures and a drop in tax revenue.

Therefore, there is a perverse incentive on both sides to keep the toll roads from being converted into public ones.

I have no idea if this sort of thing was prevalent in the past, especially in the UK. But I wanted to chime in about why several toll roads that were supposed to be paid off thirty years ago are still going strong. I suspect that 500+ years ago “build toll road, hand toll road to the public” was a lot more straightforward.

makingstuffs 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The River Severn bridges connecting Wales and England were marked toll free in 2018 after 50 years of collecting tolls: https://www.visitmonmouthshire.com/plan-your-visit/how-to-ge...

arethuza a day ago | parent [-]

The Forth Road Bridge stopped having tolls in 2008 and was effectively replaced more recently by a new bridge, the Queensferry Crossing, that has never had tolls.

nyeah 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Some folks might consider 500 years "permanent."

petesergeant 2 days ago | parent [-]

Yes, but that doesn't mean we all need to stoop to that level

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adammarples 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

There are plenty of pubs and houses in the UK called The Old Toll House so I know for sure that some have ended

fsckboy 2 days ago | parent [-]

"Toll House cookies" (chocolate chip cookies) are named after an inn that was named for a tollhouse on an old Massachusetts toll road.