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winrid 3 hours ago

you just agree on a set of conventions for components and state management, it's not that hard. This is basically how Rails works...

yes it's still a framework, duh. it's just less abstraction than react etc.

onion2k 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Sure, and if you like working with the conventions and abstraction Rails offers that's great.

Other people make different choices. That doesn't mean they're wrong.

winrid 2 hours ago | parent [-]

To write good React you have to follow conventions, too. You can't get away from conventions.

People keep touting react etc but I swear every mobile ordering app I use lags like hell, just from recent example, and these can easily be built and maintained without a huge framework to "manage state" or "connect state to the view".

pkphilip 9 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Absolutely agree. I hate the state management mess in these frameworks.

onion2k an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

People keep touting react etc but I swear every mobile ordering app I use lags like hell..

I don't doubt it. People make terrible websites with React.

However ... what might be happening is that you go to some websites, and some of them are great and others are terrible laggy garbage. When it's a bad one you open up devtools and see React, and that leads you to conclude that React is bad. But reality is that the good ones also use React, because most big websites use it.

Your reaction to the good ones is to assume they're well-built using whatever tech you happen to think is great (Rails, Vanilla JS, Vue, Svelte... whatever) but you're not actually looking. Hell, a great website isn't even a website, it's the experience of interacting with the business behind it. You don't even think about the tech when the website is actually usable.

Your reaction to the bad websites is to look under the hood, and you often find React.

That either means React websites are bad, or that React websites are good or bad, and it's not really React that's the issue. It's the team who built the site (and often not even the tech team; there's often some Product or commercial pressure that's driving the team to release something that's not really ready yet.)

winrid 10 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I'm not sure I'd say "React Bad", I'd rather say "React Not Really Super Necessary and More Often Than Not Leads to a Worst Experience at Maybe a Slightly Lower Initial Cost" :)

I did an experiment recently, I actually wanted to launch a dashboard and picked React because I knew I could throw React + Tailwind + popular_component_and_charts_frameworks at Opus and get a decent result. But actually, I realized a lot of fairly simple button clicks had like a 100ms-200ms delay, and I just did not like it. I ported it to Java/Javalin with J2HTML and kept tailwind, and it's very snappy and works great. It's currently 96k lines of java ^_^

dcow an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

So React is like C++?