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joe_mamba 7 hours ago

>Whenever I leave a company I make sure everything that belongs to the company goes back to them

Because you're probably come from a high trust culture where you've been taught reciprocal trust, responsibility and accountability, but there's people coming from low trust environments where exploiting loopholes and scamming everyone outside their inner circle is the norm, and it's the way they learned to get ahead in life, from school all the way to work and business.

They're brazen because they've never been caught or suffered consequences for their actions.

This isn't something you can screen for in a classic job interview.

rafram 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I’ve been seeing this “high-trust society” dog whistle a lot lately, and I think it’s one of the funniest of its kind. You truly want me to believe that the United States, a country with a history of slavery and segregation, a country that went through a historical period dominated by people literally called “robber barons,” was a high-trust society before immigrants from less industrialized places came and ruined that?

jandrewrogers 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It isn’t a dog whistle. The US actually does have a high-trust society compared to most of the world. Petty theft, snatching, pickpockets, scams, etc are relatively uncommon compared to e.g. many popular places in Europe. Americans are famously vulnerable to it when traveling because it isn’t really part of their domestic threat environment. In many areas, Americans don’t bother to lock anything. You can leave stuff out in public places and it is unlikely to be stolen.

I would say it is lower trust today than when I was a child. Some cities have developed real petty theft problems due to disinterested enforcement. It is still noticeably higher trust than most places in the world I’ve traveled.

EPWN3D 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It really depends on the type of trust you're talking about. You're right that in many places in the US, people generally act honestly. But that's not always true -- porch pirates are still a huge problem in cities, for example.

Policy-wise, I would not describe the US as "high trust" relative to the rest of the first world. Virtually all of our non-senior welfare programs are means-tested or require some proof of virtue (e.g. "I am actively looking for a job" to collect unemployment insurance), meaning that society broadly does not "trust" people to collect benefits honestly unless they're seniors.

dash2 an hour ago | parent [-]

We can look this up empirically: https://ourworldindata.org/trust. It shows US is a medium-high trust society; lower than parts of Europe, and lower than China (assuming people answered honestly there!) but higher than most of Africa, South America and Asia.

PedroBatista 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Petty theft, snatching, pickpockets, scams, etc are relatively uncommon compared to e.g. many popular places in Europe.

Yes, in non-popular places in Europe those are also quite uncommon, even more then in the US on average..

So the lesson here is that those type of crimes are common in tourist heavy places, like.. Times Square in NYC for example.

minittsnet 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

[dead]

yamillove 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

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Griffinsauce 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> compared to e.g. many popular places in Europe

Citation and lots of specification needed.

dd8601fn 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

US office culture is generally pretty high trust. It has relatively high autonomy, authority, and low surveillance norms.

I don't know what that has to do with a historical period of slavery.

t0mpr1c3 3 hours ago | parent [-]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_while_black

minittsnet 3 hours ago | parent [-]

[dead]

rixed 38 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I didn't read this that way at all. Society != country of origin. The US, like any country, is composed of many different cultures and more or less independent societies, some being high-trust/valuing more cooperation and some low-trust, valuing more competition.

4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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peyton 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think you could be more charitable, as GP said “culture,” not “society.”

Apple alleges not only individual malfeasance, but also recruitment tactics like “show-and-tell” aimed at recruiting those willing to bring company secrets (and discriminating against those who would not).

This is enough to constitute a low-trust culture that self-perpetuates.

Surely given the size of China there are plenty of honorable people. And surely in the US there are many dishonorable people, as you’ve pointed out.

minittsnet 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[dead]

t0mpr1c3 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

100%.

The US is high-trust for insiders (rich white people). We allowed Donald Trump to loot the richest and most powerful society in history by imagining that he would follow the example of previous presidents instead of seeing him for the sociopathic con man that he has always been.

Conversely, the US is zero-trust for outsiders such as foreigners, racially disfavored groups, and the poor. Allegedly-dog-eating Haitians and the like. We have guns and are not shy about using them. Being killed by police is a leading cause of death for young men of color, as noted by Ice Cube, and confirmed by researchers at Rutgers (https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1821204116).

2 hours ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
groundzeros2015 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes. People who grew up in the 40s and 50s in the US are common targets of scams because the world they grew up in is very trusting. Adults of the same age who grew up in the east bloc? Much more skeptical.

> history of slavery

Every country and group has practiced slavery.

rixed 41 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> This isn't something you can screen for in a classic job interview

Why not? Sounds not that hard. I actually believe this is something that would make a candidate looks good in an interview for many large corporations.

AussieWog93 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ok, the implication that I'm reading between the lines is that this sort of behaviour is somehow more tolerated by people with names like Liu and Tan, but is this actually the case?

I know there's some evidence of Chinese people working at big tech and feeding data back to the CCP but is this a "low trust culture" issue in general or an extrapolation of that one pattern?

mandevil 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Heh, as a (very white) American I presumed it was America in general today. From what I can see, it seems to be turning into a place where it's all scams, rug-pulls, crypto and sports gambling. This concerns me about the world that my 9 year old is growing up in, the only world he's ever known, even the early 2010s seemed to be higher trust than the past decade has felt like.

JKCalhoun 3 hours ago | parent [-]

That does seem like the way Capitalism is being presented these days. Move fast and break things struck me as also from the same "fuck it" ethos that pervades the Modern Valley.

It might be the Valley attracts this kind (of sociopath?). In "the day" I watched as some co-workers popped from company to company, never staying for more than 6 months, and getting a salary bump with each jump. I guess good for them?

acdha 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You don’t have to look any first than the White House to say that behavior is well-established in American culture, too. From the prosperity gospel to “don’t hate the player”, etc. this is deeply not a Chinese thing.

6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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aobdev 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think you’ve made an extreme leap in your interpretation of the comment you’re replying to…

mock-possum 6 hours ago | parent [-]

No, ‘high/low-trust culture’ has lately been co-opted as a racist dog whistle.

deaux 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This isn't true at all in general online discourse. Maybe on X, in which case I'd recommend getting off of X.

It's overwhelmingly brought up when talking about Japan (and sometimes Korea) in comparison to the US (or EU). With Japan (or Korea) being the high-trust culture in that comparison, and the US/EU being the low-trust one.

I guarantee you can do a search across mentions of high/low-trust culture across online platforms in the last 12 months and the large majority will be these contexts, i.e. Western countries described low-trust, not high-trust.

aobdev 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Huh, TIL. Thanks for pointing it out.

lotsofpulp 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I feel like it used to be an effective dog whistle, but has ceased to be since Trump and company came around.

markdown 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Ok, the implication that I'm reading between the lines is that this sort of behaviour is somehow more tolerated by people with names like Liu and Tan, but is this actually the case?

Of course not. Have you been following national news or politics the past few years, and the continued incredibly strong support bad actors received despite atrocious behavior and even allegedly criminal acts?

The grandparent commentor is just racist.

sgarland 5 hours ago | parent [-]

> The grandparent comment is just racist.

I wouldn’t jump to that conclusion. The concept of low and high-trust societies is well-studied [0], though how a given country maps to it may be disputed.

0: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3997396/

noisy_boy 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Because you're probably come from a high trust culture where you've been taught reciprocal trust...

That is just a long sentence for "us" vs "those people".

Having said that I don't entirely deny the effect of society on people's behavior. But at the same time, I have seen people from so called high-trust society being all polished and nice on the surface while being assholes and people from so called low-trust society being genuinely decent people despite not having the right name or the surface polish.

Also, assholes tend to attract assholes and people of the same tribe/clan/race tend to form groups.

mmcwilliams 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Not sure you're being clear about what you mean, here. Is OpenAI's company culture something you consider "low trust"?

wafflemaker 6 hours ago | parent [-]

It's more about people with "everybody steals so I should steal too" also known as "tylko frajer by nie ukradł" -- "only a loser wouldn't steal that" -- mentality.

And while its somehow "cultural" it's more about people hanging together having similar moral views.